Sighhhhhhhhhhh. If you don't want to use synthetics, don't. Leave it on the shelf for those of us who do. My GTO runs better times through the traps w/ synthetic vs. petro, and my Screw gets better highway mileage too. I'll stick with synthetic thank you.

When the day comes that you can run petro crud hard for a year and it looks as clean as synthetic when you drain it, maybe then I'll switch back. Otherwise, what's the point? Saving a few bucks on oil?

SL

 

Bluegrass, since ya asked. The standards set by API are mandated to them by the ILSAC. The International Lubricant Standardization Approval Committee is a joint venture by none other than Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda and other auto makers. They deem what is critical in the formulation of your oil so that they can meet the Gov't mandated emmissions control warrantys of up to 150,000 miles. They dictate to the API what is acceptable. The ZDDP is suspected to cause damage to the emmissions control, primarily the cats, when gassing of that additive takes place. And example of that would be a blown head gasket where large amounts of water are being cooked off via engine heat. This could also be in an engine where the environment would have a lot of humidity and the engine run for short periods causing large amounts of condensation. This is the reason that the manufacturers (read ILSAC ) want to limit ZDDP. The science around ZDDP says that it works best synergisticly with the molys, borates, and calciums. The newer calcium carbomates are taking the place of the ZDDP and so far the results have been favorable. But there is no ONE additive that does it all. The best formulators will include other types of anti wear, friction modifier, and extreme pressure agents. There are many to chose from so it is up to the formulator to work his magical brew to achieve the best bang for the buck. ZDDP, I don't think it will go away any time soon but I think it may be limited to less then what you see in todays formulations. Hope that answers your query.
In regards to using an oil for many years. Because we have the Mobil One in the subject, Mobil One is no where near the same formulation or basestock. At one time, M1 was a three part synthetic basestock. Then it changed to a mostly PAO with a splash of Gp II for support of the additive package. PAOs do not support any additive package and will actually fight it. Then they went to an alkylated napthalene for the additive package binder which would be considered a GP V basestock. It is now a GP III dino synthetic. That doesn't make it a bad oil nor does it mean that Mobil is screwing the customer. It means that the PAOs are getting harder to come by in any quantity and they are getting more and more expensive. To save the consumer money, they have formulated an oil that will pretty much give the same results in analysis for factory recommended oil change intervals. Almost all oils have under gone this change, Mobil is just the more popular and has been getting hammered lately as folks are upset that they are buying a "fake" synthetic at the same prices. It's my understanding that even Amsoil is looking at the GP IIIs for their long term oils. I find no reason to consider the GP IIIs an inferior product and I will personally look for oils that have this basestock. But I don't think that they are strong enough for the extended oil change folks like Amsoil. If you still want a "true" synthetic PAO, look to Amsoil or Royal Purple but it ain't a cheap date.

You mentioned low sulphur fuels. I have lots of folks that will disagree with me but overbasing can be an issue in diesels. If you are running a CI or CH oil and use low sulphur fuel, there is a problem of crystalization forming on the cylinder walls. This is going to cause engines to burn oil early in life. The only treatment should this occur is a tear down and honing the bores. Not something most folks are willing to pay for. If you have a diesel and are using low sulphur fuel, I highly recommend the newer CJ oils. It won't run as long as the TBN is much lower but the newer diesels don't foul an oil as bad as the older ones. This is a thread all by itself. Hope this was helpful.

 

Thanks for your the elaborations.
I hope, people on these boards, begin to see their sparring about oils really come from lack of any real knowledge about all the issues and ongoing changes that are occurring.
For the most part, I ignor most oil threads unless some reasonable and reliable knowledge is brought forth and not just banter.
Thanks again for your inputs.

 

If you check your owner’s manual, you'll find that the rear-end comes with a synthetic oil. In a 4 wheel drive it's in the front and rear and in the transfer case. There are two real good reasons to use synthetic oils. The first reason being, that it is a very clean oil. The second reason being, that the molecular structure is more consistent in synthetic oils. Now why is that important? I'll try to explain that at a later time.

The following came from the Mobile 1 website:

To understand synthetic motor oils, let’s look first at the origins of all motor oils.

Conventional oils come from crude oil that is pumped from the ground. Crude oil is made up of a complex mixture of molecules that form chains and rings of different sizes and shapes. Long chains of carbon atoms produce a thick, viscous fluid that flows slowly. Shorter chains produce fluid that flows more readily.

In an oil refinery, crude oil is separated into various fractions. These become the basis for lubricating oils and fuels. Thick tangled masses of carbon chains become asphaltic materials used in roofing tar and road work. Very short chains and ring compounds of carbon are volatile and can be refined to produce gasoline and other products.

While petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons, cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and may end up in motor oil base stocks.

All motor oils are made up of base oils and additives. In general, fully synthetic motor oils contain non-conventional, high-performance fluids. Synthetic blends usually use some non-conventional, high-performance fluids in combination with conventional oil.

To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1® uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

 

Nope. Two strikes.

Factory fill for:

Rear Axle - 75w-140 (Synthetic)
Front Axle: 80w90 Premium (dino) for 2006, 75w-90 for 2000
Transfer case: Mercon (dino)

Owners manuals here:

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi...&menuIndex1=25

Molecules are the same size. Wow. Imagine that

 

I too used to be in the oil business. I worked for an 86 year old oil manufacturer. (There is a difference between manfacturer and blender) However, I was in sales not engineering.

As I was taught in "Oil School" : yes the base stocks are different BUT primarily the add packs all come from the same vendors (IE:as mentioned earlier @ the vendor for ZDDP) and it is infact these add packs that wear 1st (Is this true or not labnerd?) SO what I was taught that if the add pack is weak it doesn't matter wether the base stock is dino or synthetic.

If I am wrong please let me know.

 

The thing about these arguments is that, NO MATTER which one is "better", they will perform exactly the same. Unless you start doing weird stuff like going 30,000 miles between changes. But that will void your warranty anyway. So, why don't you put 80lbs of air in your tires? Anyone that knows anything about tires knows that it won't hurt them, and it will make them last a WHOLE lot longer. The reason you don't do that, is because the MFGR says "don't". Now, ford says "Don't" to extended oil drain intervals.

This is a debate that can be summed up in a few statements.

1. Dyno oils that meet specs will perform adequately to protect the engine from premature wear.
2. Synthetic oils that meet specs will perform adequately to protect the engine from premature wear.
3. Dyno oils are typically cheaper than synthetic
4. Synthetic oils are typically more expensive than dyno.
5. You have to follow the same mantinence schedule to retain your warranty, whether you run dyno or synthetic.
6. Dyno oils and synthetic oils that meet the engine's specs, adequately fill the "oil gap" between the moving parts of the engine.
7. If a car costs $40,000 and you have $40,000 then you have adequate money to buy it.
8. If a car costs $40,000 and you have $400,000 then you have adequate money to buy it.

 

hcmq, first let me state that I'm in engine technologies, not lubes. But we have to know the components and characteristics of the fluids we use. Knowing the processes is just part of the learning curve and inter company BS. Then we have to use fluid analysis to determine if the designs have any advantages or not, will endure or not, etc so knowledge of the different oils and composition is critcal. Some designs will work better with certain basestocks. Example: the GM Corvette. The front main bearing is the last to get oil. It basically starves for oil at startup. PAOs can help but that is more of a design issue than a lube issue. We do see on a freshly assembled engine that we used only the motor oil that will be in the pan as an assembly fluid, a reduction of the additive package. Sometimes as much as 25%. We find that a fresh engine will plate up with the addiditves and at the next oil change the additive package stays fairly level. The most common issue on a street engine is that the oil reaches a zero point on the TBN and acids tend to eat the engine. Another thing we see is that engines that are assembled and run using a heavier than recommended fluid has a tendency to run the internal temps considerably hotter than a recommended viscosity. Folks using a 20w-50 in a Triton engine are toasting the engine from the inside not to mention accelerated wear at the cams. But old ideas die hard just like the 3000 mile oil change interval. A modern Triton engine will easily go 5000 miles on even El Cheapo oil and still have life left in it. One thing about motor oil, if you don't have a current scorecard, you don't have a clue. It's changing that fast.

 

I have 90K on my 01 4.6 S'Crew. I run Motorcraft 5w30w in the summer amd 5w20w in the winter. I have run Amsoil in the tranmission for the last 60K miles. When I put it in there was a difference.
It is a fact that fluids break down over time. The synthetics seem to last a little longer and give a little better performance in extreme conditions. I am old school still change my oil every 3K miles. Always have and always will. SO I am not inclined to use anything but regular oil or a blend like Motorcraft in my motor. I use Motorcraft in the rearend.
Just a small detail, I have an external filter on my tranmission and a double filter on the motor. I change the trans filter every third oil change and I alternate the oil filters. May sound weird to some but it makes me happy.

 

This is second hand info, but I've been told the only thing Ford requires as proof of keeping up with the maintenance schedule is a written log of the work. I don't see how they could force you to come up with dated receipts to prove it. Not everyone keeps receipts. So how could they void your warranty if you kept a logbook, regardless of whether or not it was true?

Hypothetically speaking, you could drive back and forth across the US four or five times in a month and rack up over 20K miles, but your oil would still look fairly clean, unless your motor was filthy before the trip. If is was synthetic oil, it would probably fare VERY well if tested. So, even testing the oil wouldn't be fair grounds for warranty dismissal.

SL

 

Like someone said earlier, changing all the fluids is a guessing game, but when u first buy it all your fluids are factory and their not going to put in a cheap fluid in it but they wont put the best in it. Synthetic oil will give u more miles before oil changes but i would just stick with what you got, but really it is personal preference.

 

As an admittedly ignorant person, could you advise what would be a good purchase? I bought my truck in 99, and have been using mobil 1 since, but now it appears that that is no longer a wise choice.

My driving patterns are very sparse, I drive maybe about 300 miles a month or less, mostly consisting of very short trips of under a mile.

 

It is still a wise choice. My 03 only has 44K on it, but I still use full synthetic oil. Petro may be getting better, but it still isn't as good as synthetic. Don't be swayed by others. If you are really concerned, do some Googling, read up on some comparison tests and after you're informed, make your decision.

SL