First time using synth oil - 03 Exp, 4.6l. I have 6K miles on this change (Jiffy lube- penzoil full synth). Oil looks ok; not bad really. Dark amber in color but clear. I am wondering if it is time to change. Jiffy lube said the oil is good for 6k, but their filter is only good for 3k! (I really like that).

I am planning on doing my own (after many years of having it changed) due to the expense.

So, can I just change the filter and continue to use it a while, or should I just change it and the filter, and what would be a proper interval w/synth? What is a good synth oil to use?

Also, I am reading about Amsoil. where does one get that stuff except the internet?

Sorry for all the questions. Newbie-itis.

Thanks for your help,

John

 

I assume that you have the Pennzoil Platinum in your engine. It's a good oil but its design intention is for normal OCIs, not extended. The filter only lasting 3000 miles is a sales pitch. The filter will last longer than the oil in most cases and certainly 6000 miles. There are no real benefits from using a synthetic, they are not slicker and won't make your engine last one mile longer under normal driving conditions. If you want or need extended oil changes, Amsoil is the way to go. Use their oil filter and I would also suggest using their air filter. Have the oil trended via analysis at 5000 miles, 10000 miles and depending on the 10000 mile report, probably again at 15000 miles. For the average driver that just runs around and to and from work, that's just about once a year and change it annually. I believe that Norm of this board is an Amsoil dealer, he can help you pick the product that best suits your needs. He should be able to help you with the oil analysis as well.

 

Have to call BS on this!

A fully synthetic oil has a lower coefficient of friction (in other words, it is slicker). The less friction the less engine wear. The less an engine wears the longer it will last.

T

 

it's been my experince, that synthetic oil is better than normal oil and does indeed help an engine last longer. It all depends on different things though, the type of driving you do, the climate where you live, the type of weight of oil you use. I mean 5w30 is diffent than 10w30, 10w30 is diffent than 10w40, and so on. you have to factor in all these different things when you compare the diffent oils together. Can you go a little longer inbetween oil changes if you use a synthetic oil, sure you can. But you have to take into consideration the type of driving you do, the climate where you live those types of things.

 

Tsquared, you can call it anything you like but you would be wrong. Most synthetics like M1 or Amsoil are made from eythelene gas. It comes out of the ground along with crude oil. They are in fact the same hydrocarbons, just processed differently and into slightly different chain lengths. For the PAOs the chain lengths are more consistant but thats about it anymore. Whoever told you that synthetics are slicker is a moron and has zero clue about oils or the even the processes to make them. Most of the oils in the USA are a blend of GpII+ and Gp I; these are the oils referred to as dino oils or just regular motor oil.. GpII+ goes thru the same identical process that a Gp III synthetic does except that it comes out, by design, with a lower Viscosity Index. That is the only difference. A GpIII oil has its advantages over a PAO just like a PAO has some disadvantages over the Gp III. Any motor oil is a balancing act regardless of basestock. If you want extended oil changes, you have to use an oil that is built for it. Amsoil is built for it but it has no other advantages. The only oil that has an extremely minor advantage in regards to lubricity is an ester based oil. For it to have any effect at all it must be 100% ester. There are very few pure ester based oils made as they have far too many issues. Oil like Redline uses a mix of ester and several other basestocks but is by no means 100% ester. As I have stated here before, use whatever your wallet can stand and if it gives you a warm fuzzy, the better. But it won't buy you one more mile of engine life or fuel mileage using any synthetic.

 

Labnerd you need to go back to school. Re-read my post. My only comment was about your statement of synthetics not being slicker. Again I call BS on that statement. The rest of your rant has truth. Just not the part about the friction.

If you can prove it has the same friction coefficient you would do us all a service and get all of the oil company morons straitened out. Almost every Synthetic Oil company out there advertises similar statments as the Amsoil site: Switching to AMSOIL will reduce the friction in your engine, which WILL increase your fuel mileage. (www.oilspecialist.com)


Nuff said.

T

 

just what i have found

Oil Analysis
To determine the optimum oil change frequency for your vehicle requires that you perform several oil analysis during one oil change interval. For example, if your vehicle has 15,000 miles on it and the manufacturer recommends 7500 mile oil changes for normal service and 5000 miles for severe, perform an analysis at 18,750 miles, 20,000 miles, and 22,500 miles (if the first or second test shows a need for an oil change then stop there). Do not exceed the manufacturer's normal service interval even if the analysis shows no need for an oil change at 7500 miles. The oil change industry desperately desires that you NOT perform such an analysis. The almost certain result for most drivers will be that even at 7500 miles the oil will still be fine.

Even after your vehicle is out of warranty it is a good idea to continue to follow the manufacturer's schedule for maintenance. There are frequently special campaigns (not recalls) to fix latent defects after the warranty has expired. Lately we've seen these on some Toyota V6 engines and some Saturn engines. You want the manufacturer to have no excuse to deny coverage. Also you can sometimes get a manufacturer to share the cost of an expensive repair when something fails after the warranty has expired, but this is at their pleasure and it is best to have solid proof that you have followed the maintenance schedules.

Big oil users like bus companies and truck fleets use oil analysis to extend the life of their engines without unnecessary oil changes. The reasons are clear. These big engines can use 3-4 gallons of oil and unnecessary changes are expensive in both time and materials. In some cases they change the filters and put in additives to replace the acid neutralizers and anti-wear agents. A good analogy is swimming pool maintenance. You clean the filters, you remove the debris, you add stabilizers and disinfectants, but you rarely empty the whole pool and refill it.

 

Thank you gentlemen. No need to resort to arguing about details. Didn't mean to start a controversy.

Basically, I am used to using regular dino oil in my cars and they get kinda black after 4-5K miles or so. I regularly changed them at 3-4 to avoid problems. Had a 96 Concord (bought used in 99 @ 48K miles) and routinely changed the oil. Motor was still very strong when I sold it at 144K miles.

Now in my Expy, I am at 6K miles on the synthetic and it "looks" fairly clean. Considering the cost of a change, just wondering how long is a reasonable period between changes, and do I need to just change the filter somewhere in there without doing a complete oil change. Can I go 10K miles on that?

Just wonding what others have found who use synthetics.

Best Regards,

John

 

You guys can pour whatever you want into your engine, and change it every 25 years if you want to, but I would put what ford recommends into it, and change it when it says to. Unless it burns it excessively.

Just because your oil "looks clean" doesn't mean that the detergents aren't worn out. And if your dino oil meets the api specs for your engine, then you will get just as long (or longer) service life as the guy that puts the $10 a quart oil in it. (that sometimes doesn't even meet specs.)

 

Most of the people running full synthetic, that I have seen here, change the oil at around 6000 miles.

FWIW.

Side note: I run Motorcraft 5w20 with the FL-820S, changed every 3000 miles (+/- a few hundred miles), and it doesnt leak or burn oil with 147k miles. I would run longer intervals (5k miles), but Im at college and I only drive about 12-13k miles a year, and most of my driving is very short trips (less than 5 miles), and Im not exactly an easy going driver ... I get good use out of my Xcal2 and my gas mileage shows it.

 

i run mobile one 5-20 in mine.. i just turned 100k and i use the stock 820s filters. i change at 6k.. never had a prob doesnt use any oil. comes out a little darker but not black by any means. just for peice of mind i guess.

 

You will read various opinions about synthetics. I personally like a few but they do cost more. I use Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple. This includes tranny, transfer case, and diff.

My brother and I signed up as preferred customers on the Amsoil website, and just get the stuff shipped direct. MANY people don't like that but I have no problem with getting goods shipped right to my door. I actually prefer it. You get the exact same price as any dealer.

I buy Redline stuff from a local guy, Continental Motor Sports. I get the Royal Purple stuff locally too.

Regarding your filter change, the answer is yes. You can keep the same oil but just change the filter, however, it is recommended that you do extended drains in conjunction with oil analysis. Let the lab guys tell you whether or not your oil needs changing, not Jiffy Lube. They are the biggest crooks in the US in the auto maintenance industry if you ask me.

There are guys that will tell you that these higher dollar synthetics are no better than any other or any dino oil. So it boils down to personal choice. It's your money, not theirs. I simply took the advice of a 25+ year enginner/lubricant specialist and went with Amsoil as my main choice. I still have the other in my garage because I got a deal buying several cases, as we have several vehicles.

 

Don't worry, you didn't. This topic is always debated. Like I said before, and Labnerd, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, do it. It makes me feel Downy soft.

That would actually concern me from all I've read. If oil looks clean with 6K miles on it, then it is not doing one of it's most important functions, and that is to CLEAN. Oil should be fairly black by 1000 because it will suspend particles in the 0 to 100+ micron range. I guess the one area I would disagree with Labnerd is the filters. The cleaner the filter the better, and the more they're changed the better IMO (like every 5K miles). Now, that is when using the ultra cheap kind like a Fram. MC, Amsoil, Mobil 1, can be changed per manufacturer recommendation.

What puzzles me is that comment by Labnerd regarding the 'slickness' of synthetics. If they are not any 'slicker' then why was there all the controversy and reported accounts about new motors never 'seating' etc.?? If they aren't any slicker, then is it perfectly safe to buy a new vehicle with 10 miles on it and dump the oil, add a full synthetic and have no problems? I've read where diesel engines require 6-15K miles before switching. Why?

The common denominator seemed to be the rapid use of a synthetic oil, ie. used immediately in a new motor. The other comment on filters lasting longer than the oil itself also makes me wonder. If that is the case, then why did so many Toyota cars have so many sludge problems? Toyota/dealers claims that it is a 2 fold reason: 1) owners were neglecting to change their oil at least every 5K miles, and 2) they admitted that in some cars, their filters are simply too small to go 5K miles. But their sludge problem wasn't a small issue, it was widespread. The 2 dealers I purchased from both said the best thing to do is make SURE the oil filters are changed at least every 3K miles.

 

There is one piece of evidence that nobody here can deny. If synthetics were ANY better, then why doesn't Ford recommend them? Because they built the engine to run on dino! You can put whatever you want in it, but for "peace of mind's" sake, stick with what Ford recommends. Had I ran synthetic instead of dino in my 180,000 mile truck, would it be running any better today? It still gets the same gas mileage, and runs the EXACT same time through the quarter mile as when I bought it, and uses a lot less oil. Add to the fact, there's probably not a single one of you people here that will keep an engine long enough to wear it out. There's other parts on the truck that will go a lot sooner, so the engine oil issue is a moot point. It's like the "high octane gas" issue. People think that since it's "premium" that it's a lot better for power and economy. But it's not, unless your engine is designed (or modified) to run on it.

Honestly, how many of you have blown up engines from "oil failure" (running out of oil doesn't count) And if this applies, would synthetic have prevented it?

If you want to put it in, do it. Is it better? I say no, unless you have done something to your motor that puts it outside factory specs, thereby removing the manufacturer's recommendation. (eg. engine rebuild, or running nitrous, or high boost, etc...) You could use a case hardened logging chain for safety chains on a lawnmower trailer if you wanted to. Is it better chain? Yes! Will it work better than the little chains already on the trailer? No. Unless you're pulling the trailer with a bulldozer on it.

 

What I mean by saying it "looks" clean, is in comparrison to my 96 concorde w/ dino oil, by 5K miles it would be fairly black. So I always tryied to stay under 4K for a change, most times right on 3. The Penzoil Platinum in my Expy now (6Kmiles) is darker than when it first went in, but not as bad as my experience w/dino oil. I know that's not scientific in the least, but it does seem to be consistent with the claims that synthetics reduce wear - less sludge produced, less carbon etc.

I'm thinking I might try some royal purple as a continuance of my experiment.

As for Ford recommendations, I am only aware of the oil weight, not type. In the case of my Expy, I believe Ford requires synthetics for the differential and maybe tranny too. So....?

I am driving my wife nuts with all this stuff about tweeking for mpg and hp! Hope it wears off soon

John