Amsoil - Give me the spin
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From: Atlanta, GA
You know, the one question that you avoided like the plauge in our past discussion about amsoil, was what about the extended drain intervals that toyota proclaimed and then paid out the wazzoo for with "gelled" engine.
Now this time, I ask you why then would they API cetify some of their products, but not others? So to answer me, you tell me how API certification works and call that schooling? All you're doing is avoiding the question. Why certify some but not others? If you can answer that with a reasonably stated realistic response, I'll withdraw my points of this debate.
Now this time, I ask you why then would they API cetify some of their products, but not others? So to answer me, you tell me how API certification works and call that schooling? All you're doing is avoiding the question. Why certify some but not others? If you can answer that with a reasonably stated realistic response, I'll withdraw my points of this debate.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Cape Cod
Originally Posted by Bluegrass
This is OIL RELIGION at it's finest.
Seems there are more disagreements over which oil one selects and deeper than sex!!!!
Trojan brand offers great lubrication, and without lube changes!
A spectrografic oil analysis can identify particulate matter and it's volume. For my 87 Mercedes 300D, a 3 litre six cylinder turbo diesel, particulate count of soot increases, and becomes abrasive thus increasing bearing ware etc at 5000K using Moble One...Gas engines do not suffer soot particulate accumulation as diesel and may be less contaminated thus offering greater, or longer service. Old and acidic oil left on bearings etc can and do dissolve bearing surfaces...the reason why marine engines have their oil changed before putting to bed for the winter months....
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Easton, Pa.
You bring up good points that appears to cause others to run with like a fish on hook.
Those engines that develope metals would indicate either they already are in trouble or the factory/ parts suppliers have not lived up to there jobs/quality control of parts.
Oil analysis is not for the average owner because the product has been tested and an oil specified, provideing the change intervals are maintained as the very basis of warrenty and expected life. But there are those who will insist they can out due this.
I would say that there is a possible chance to extend the life of an engine by using oils known to provide somewhat better protection in some areas of their formulation, but honestly at 200,000 mile + it becomes only a talking point as some threads have already pointed out like "who's in the 300,000 mile club" in this formum.
Those engines that develope metals would indicate either they already are in trouble or the factory/ parts suppliers have not lived up to there jobs/quality control of parts.
Oil analysis is not for the average owner because the product has been tested and an oil specified, provideing the change intervals are maintained as the very basis of warrenty and expected life. But there are those who will insist they can out due this.
I would say that there is a possible chance to extend the life of an engine by using oils known to provide somewhat better protection in some areas of their formulation, but honestly at 200,000 mile + it becomes only a talking point as some threads have already pointed out like "who's in the 300,000 mile club" in this formum.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Cape Cod
Originally Posted by Bluegrass
You bring up good points that appears to cause others to run with like a fish on hook.
Those engines that develope metals would indicate either they already are in trouble or the factory/ parts suppliers have not lived up to there jobs/quality control of parts.
Oil analysis is not for the average owner because the product has been tested and an oil specified, provideing the change intervals are maintained as the very basis of warrenty and expected life. But there are those who will insist they can out due this.
I would say that there is a possible chance to extend the life of an engine by using oils known to provide somewhat better protection in some areas of their formulation, but honestly at 200,000 mile + it becomes only a talking point as some threads have already pointed out like "who's in the 300,000 mile club" in this formum.
Those engines that develope metals would indicate either they already are in trouble or the factory/ parts suppliers have not lived up to there jobs/quality control of parts.
Oil analysis is not for the average owner because the product has been tested and an oil specified, provideing the change intervals are maintained as the very basis of warrenty and expected life. But there are those who will insist they can out due this.
I would say that there is a possible chance to extend the life of an engine by using oils known to provide somewhat better protection in some areas of their formulation, but honestly at 200,000 mile + it becomes only a talking point as some threads have already pointed out like "who's in the 300,000 mile club" in this formum.
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From: Seabrook,NH
Originally Posted by 98Navi
You know, the one question that you avoided like the plauge in our past discussion about amsoil, was what about the extended drain intervals that toyota proclaimed and then paid out the wazzoo for with "gelled" engine.
Extended intervals have been proven by many fleet companies, trucking firms, delivery services etc. Not to mention all the members here besides me that told you the same thing I did. I would look at what is wrong with that model engine because I am sure that not every owner of those Toyota trucks or cars used the same oil. That argument holds no water.
Now this time, I ask you why then would they API cetify some of their products, but not others? So to answer me, you tell me how API certification works and call that schooling?
All you're doing is avoiding the question.
Why certify some but not others? If you can answer that with a reasonably stated realistic response, I'll withdraw my points of this debate.
API rated oils:
XLM 5W -20
XLF 5W-30
XLT 10W-30
XLO 10W-40
ASL 5W-30
ATM 10W-30
The one I use:
Series 2000 0W-30
and the Series 2000 20W-50.
Pretty good selection of oils that meet or exceed API ratings. Some may not have the hundred thousand dollar sunburst logo but I throw the empty bottles away anyway.
Peace.
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From: Seabrook,NH
Article from August 05 issue of Lubes N Greases
This is an industry trade publication NOT affiliated with Amsoil.
This is an industry trade publication NOT affiliated with Amsoil.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 9,417
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From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Norm,
I used to sell a product that wasn't certified for use in Animal Feed. That is what I do for a living. I could have continued to sell it, but at a lower price and to an increasingly smaller market. Companies manufacturing animal feed are required to guarantee their product and will only use certified ingredient. As soon as the issue was brought to my attention I contacted the supplier and they did the necessary paper work to have the product certified. Now the use of motor oil is not regulated by the government but it is by the vehicle manufacturers. That is, if you wish to retain your warranty. The manufacturers specify a certain rating and you are required to use only oils that meet and or exceed that rating. In glancing at this thread I picked out that Amsoil will cover any oil related failure. Will Amsoil help the consumer in any way when they are denied warranty coverage because of their use of a non manufacturer approved oil? The reason I ask is that this issue would not come up if the consumer used a manufacturer approved oil.
JMC
I used to sell a product that wasn't certified for use in Animal Feed. That is what I do for a living. I could have continued to sell it, but at a lower price and to an increasingly smaller market. Companies manufacturing animal feed are required to guarantee their product and will only use certified ingredient. As soon as the issue was brought to my attention I contacted the supplier and they did the necessary paper work to have the product certified. Now the use of motor oil is not regulated by the government but it is by the vehicle manufacturers. That is, if you wish to retain your warranty. The manufacturers specify a certain rating and you are required to use only oils that meet and or exceed that rating. In glancing at this thread I picked out that Amsoil will cover any oil related failure. Will Amsoil help the consumer in any way when they are denied warranty coverage because of their use of a non manufacturer approved oil? The reason I ask is that this issue would not come up if the consumer used a manufacturer approved oil.
JMC
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From: WHITE CLOUD KS
Heck I reuse my old oil. Catrol synthetic blend(yes I know its not real synthetic) but it sure makes my red tool box look good with those silver/grey jugs sitting on top of it.
I tried quaker state but the green jugs on a red craftsman tool box made it look like a christmas decoration.
Any way
It gets drained into one of them 5 qt jugs at or about 3 thousand miles and put on the shelf for use in my old 1979 gmc wood hauling/camping truck with 200,000 freaking miles on it. Trust me I think a 30 dollar oil change is worth more than the truck. I just wish it had matching tires.
I tried quaker state but the green jugs on a red craftsman tool box made it look like a christmas decoration.
Any way
It gets drained into one of them 5 qt jugs at or about 3 thousand miles and put on the shelf for use in my old 1979 gmc wood hauling/camping truck with 200,000 freaking miles on it. Trust me I think a 30 dollar oil change is worth more than the truck. I just wish it had matching tires.
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From: Atlanta, GA
JMC, no they won't aid you in a manufacturer warranty situation. They advise you to "follow factory recommendations" during your warranty period.
5. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Now, in that article, the absolute best they could come up with was a comparision to Mobil 1 and Walmarts 97cent oil. 6 walmart oil changes, 3 mobil 1 changes, and 1 amsoil change. And the verdict? That you wouldn't hurt the enviorment as much with one oil change. Are you kidding me? Thats it? I guess they (amsoil) neglected to realize that large percentages of used conventional motor oil are used to provide heat in the winter in oil burning furnaces. I guess they forgot that walmart recycles oil and thats how they sell you a $12 oil change. I guess they just neglected to notice the small factors that matter.
5. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Now, in that article, the absolute best they could come up with was a comparision to Mobil 1 and Walmarts 97cent oil. 6 walmart oil changes, 3 mobil 1 changes, and 1 amsoil change. And the verdict? That you wouldn't hurt the enviorment as much with one oil change. Are you kidding me? Thats it? I guess they (amsoil) neglected to realize that large percentages of used conventional motor oil are used to provide heat in the winter in oil burning furnaces. I guess they forgot that walmart recycles oil and thats how they sell you a $12 oil change. I guess they just neglected to notice the small factors that matter.
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From: Seabrook,NH
Originally Posted by 98Navi
JMC, no they won't aid you in a manufacturer warranty situation. They advise you to "follow factory recommendations" during your warranty period.
5. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
5. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
If you are going to quote it quote it ALL:
5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed.
a. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
b. Customer shall retain failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL INC. unless given to the OEM.
c. Customer shall also, within 30 days of failure, notify AMSOIL INC. and provide the following:
(a.) An eight (8) ounce representative oil sample taken from the failed equipment and put into a clean container.
(b.) Documentation including make, model, and year of equipment, total accumulated miles and/or hours, and duty cycle or service environment.
(c.) Equipment or vehicle maintenance history documentation including miles or hours at the time of AMSOIL lubricant installation, general equipment repairs, and oil analysis results if available.
(d.) Proof of purchase for AMSOIL lubricant.
(e.) Batch number from oil container or Certificate of Analysis.
d. Mail the above sample and information to:
AMSOIL INC., Attn: Technical Services
AMSOIL Bldg.
Superior, WI 54880
e. In cases where the OEM warranty is still in effect and that warranty coverage is denied based on the use of an AMSOIL lubricant, the customer shall immediately notify AMSOIL INC. and provide a written copy of the OEM warranty denial.
f. AMSOIL INC. may, at its option, notify its insurance carrier of the claim.
g. AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier may conduct an investigation that includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of the failed parts, a review of the operating conditions, and a thorough review of the information requested above. The customer agrees to cooperate with such investigation.
h. If AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier pays a claim, an attempt may be made to recover amounts paid from the OEM. If this occurs, the customer may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and to cooperate with AMSOIL INC. or its insurer in the recovery process.
a. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
b. Customer shall retain failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL INC. unless given to the OEM.
c. Customer shall also, within 30 days of failure, notify AMSOIL INC. and provide the following:
(a.) An eight (8) ounce representative oil sample taken from the failed equipment and put into a clean container.
(b.) Documentation including make, model, and year of equipment, total accumulated miles and/or hours, and duty cycle or service environment.
(c.) Equipment or vehicle maintenance history documentation including miles or hours at the time of AMSOIL lubricant installation, general equipment repairs, and oil analysis results if available.
(d.) Proof of purchase for AMSOIL lubricant.
(e.) Batch number from oil container or Certificate of Analysis.
d. Mail the above sample and information to:
AMSOIL INC., Attn: Technical Services
AMSOIL Bldg.
Superior, WI 54880
e. In cases where the OEM warranty is still in effect and that warranty coverage is denied based on the use of an AMSOIL lubricant, the customer shall immediately notify AMSOIL INC. and provide a written copy of the OEM warranty denial.
f. AMSOIL INC. may, at its option, notify its insurance carrier of the claim.
g. AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier may conduct an investigation that includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of the failed parts, a review of the operating conditions, and a thorough review of the information requested above. The customer agrees to cooperate with such investigation.
h. If AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier pays a claim, an attempt may be made to recover amounts paid from the OEM. If this occurs, the customer may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and to cooperate with AMSOIL INC. or its insurer in the recovery process.
If you are using quality oil I would not expect an oil related failure, Amsoil, Mobil1, Motorcraft etc.
Originally Posted by 98Navi
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
AMSOIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REJECT A WARRANTY CLAIM FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
Show me one company that will do that.
Last edited by Norm; Jan 18, 2006 at 12:50 PM.
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From: Seabrook,NH
Originally Posted by 98Navi
Now, in that article, the absolute best they could come up with was a comparision to Mobil 1 and Walmarts 97cent oil. 6 walmart oil changes, 3 mobil 1 changes, and 1 amsoil change. And the verdict? That you wouldn't hurt the enviorment as much with one oil change. Are you kidding me? Thats it? I guess they (amsoil) neglected to realize that large percentages of used conventional motor oil are used to provide heat in the winter in oil burning furnaces. I guess they forgot that walmart recycles oil and thats how they sell you a $12 oil change. I guess they just neglected to notice the small factors that matter.
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 9,417
Likes: 11
From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Norm,
You missunderstood the question. If I use an Amsoil lubricant that doesn't meet the Ford spec my warranty will be void. The Glove box manuls states to use API certified oil. On the Amsoil site it doesn't state that Amsoil 5W20 is API certified. It only states that: They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications: API SM/CF, SL, SJ ... Ford WSS-M2C930-A. This is Amsoil's recommendation not Foprd's. If Ford decides to deny warranty becasue of the use of oil that doesn't meet the API certification I could be left holding the bag all alone. I understand that Amsoil will pay if it is an oil related failure, meaning that the Amsoil oil was the casue of the failure. If the failure was caused by a Ford manufacturing deffect Ford can deny the warranty becasue of the use of a non API certified oil. Will Amsoil pay in that instance?
JMC
You missunderstood the question. If I use an Amsoil lubricant that doesn't meet the Ford spec my warranty will be void. The Glove box manuls states to use API certified oil. On the Amsoil site it doesn't state that Amsoil 5W20 is API certified. It only states that: They are recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications: API SM/CF, SL, SJ ... Ford WSS-M2C930-A. This is Amsoil's recommendation not Foprd's. If Ford decides to deny warranty becasue of the use of oil that doesn't meet the API certification I could be left holding the bag all alone. I understand that Amsoil will pay if it is an oil related failure, meaning that the Amsoil oil was the casue of the failure. If the failure was caused by a Ford manufacturing deffect Ford can deny the warranty becasue of the use of a non API certified oil. Will Amsoil pay in that instance?
JMC
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From: Seabrook,NH
Yes I did misunderstand you, sorry.
If you are still under Fords warranty you must follow Fords instructions. Ford can void your warranty if you do not. Amsoil will only pay for an oil related failure while using Amsoil products. If the failure was a Ford manufacturing defect Amsoil would not pay nor should they have to do so.
The XL 5W-20 is API certified.
If you are still under Fords warranty you must follow Fords instructions. Ford can void your warranty if you do not. Amsoil will only pay for an oil related failure while using Amsoil products. If the failure was a Ford manufacturing defect Amsoil would not pay nor should they have to do so.
The XL 5W-20 is API certified.
AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin, has introduced XL eXtended Life lubricants, a reformulated upgrade and modified name for its popular XL-7500 line. The new API certified XL series of synthetic motor oils have been designed to meet the new SM/GF-4 specifications. With enhanced thermal/oxidation stability, AMSOIL XL synthetic motor oils carry a 7500 mile / six month drain interval but also offer extended service life in vehicles equipped with oil life monitoring systems that advocate drain intervals longer than 7500 miles.
AMSOIL XL offers friction and heat reduction, as well as superior extreme temperature performance and unsurpassed fuel economy. AMSOIL XL synthetic motor oils are more resistant to deposits than conventional oils, heavily fortified with detergent/dispersant additives. XL protects against sludge, carbon and varnish formation that can clog oil passages thereby causing premature wear through lack of lubrication.
AMSOIL XL is a synthetic motor oil available in four viscosity grades, 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40, and can be purchased in quarts, cases and drums.
AMSOIL XL offers friction and heat reduction, as well as superior extreme temperature performance and unsurpassed fuel economy. AMSOIL XL synthetic motor oils are more resistant to deposits than conventional oils, heavily fortified with detergent/dispersant additives. XL protects against sludge, carbon and varnish formation that can clog oil passages thereby causing premature wear through lack of lubrication.
AMSOIL XL is a synthetic motor oil available in four viscosity grades, 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40, and can be purchased in quarts, cases and drums.
Last edited by Norm; Jan 18, 2006 at 03:58 PM.