Too good not to share this on oil loss in a 03
#1
05-17-2004, 02:44 AM
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Too good not to share this on oil loss in a 03
I copied this thread of free agent on a Ford news site...If your wondering about finding your oil level gone down a gt. this will tell you what ford does on their newer motors...See what you think...But read from the bottom to follow where the last answer comes from and why...
The guy just below has a great answer and seems to know what he was taking about........................
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am quite familiar with these motors, I think you may not have any problems
, but let me start by copying the oil consumption test as outlined by Ford
Motor Co below....Please note that in order to be a problem , it needs to
use more than 1 quart per 900 miles . So...your vehicle would need to be
down 3 quarts at 2800 miles for there to be a real problem , you stated it
was down a quart. in 2800 miles so that is not going to be enough no matter
what you or the dealership says. Here is why. Once the dealer gets the real
reading to see exacty what the usage is , they will compare it to this test
procedure. From what you described...1 quart in 2800 miles , it is well
within factory guidlines for the 4.6 . If it is out of line (not out of line
with what you feel , but what the book says), they then are required to call
the Engineering hotline and talk to an engineer. That engineer , not your
dealer will make the determination on what course of repair to take if any.
If the engineer says its ok, there is nothing your dealer can do. These
motors , contrary to what you may read on the internet do use a little oil.
They are not like the motors of 20 years ago as you say , they run hotter ,
they produce more horsepower per liter than ever before and they run higher
oil pressure. Will every overhead cam 4.6 use 1 quart every 2800, no but
some do . It depends on the use of the vehicle , how it was broken in , how
was it treated the first 20,000 miles, did they run 5/20 oil as recomended
?? You and I don't know the answwers to those questions because you bought
it recently used I believe. My advice ? Do not worry about it. I see alot
of these , if you think this is alot you should see the newer overhead cam
cadillacs, they use even more, note I said use not burn , these are all very
effecient , and in Cadillacs case, high horsepower small hard working
engines. General Motors has reprinted its new maintenance books to say "You
are required to check your oil level at avery gasoline fill up" that may
tell you something. I really would not worry about it. As for your comment
about Toyota's not using any oil , you must not be familiar with their mid
90's 3 litre v6 engines! Our dealerships sell Ford , GM , Toyota , 18
franchises in fact and I can tell you not even Toyota would be concerned
about 1 quart in 2800 miles, you should not be either , go enjoy your car ,
the Grand marquis is a great car!
Now I am sure because I work for a dealer group you will think I am biased
and I am ready to be flamed, however , how about a independent well known
non-dealer comment on oil consumption..
Definition: All engines use a small amount of oil over time. It gets past
the piston rings and valve guide seals and is burned in the combustion
chamber. A small amount escapes through the PCV system and a few drops
usually managed to seep through a gasket or seal. The question is at what
point should one consider oil consumption to be a problem? Any engine that
consumes less than a quart of oil every 3000 miles is in excellent
mechanical condition. If it uses less than a quart in 1500 miles, it's still
in pretty good condition. But once oil consumption exceeds a quart every
1000 miles, it signals the engine is approaching retirement. Blue smoke in
the exhaust or oil consumption on the order of a quart or more every 500
miles indicates serious oil burning problems (usually due to worn or broken
piston rings, a cracked piston, or worn valve guides and/or seals).
Sometimes a leaky seal or gasket can make an otherwise good engine use oil.
The most frequent leak points are valve cover gaskets, crankshaft end seals
and oil pan gaskets. Tightening the valve cover or pan bolts can sometimes
stop a leak but usually the only cure is to replace the gasket (See Gasket).
copied from -- http://autorepair.about.com/library/.../bldef-587.htm
Oil Consumption Test
The following diagnostic procedure is used to determine the source of
excessive internal oil consumption.
1.. NOTE: Oil use is normally greater during the first 16,100 km (10,000
miles) of service. As mileage increases, oil use generally decreases.
Vehicles in normal service should get at least 1,450 km per liter (900 miles
per quart) after 16,000 km (10,000 miles) of service. High speed driving,
towing, high ambient temperature and other factors may result in greater oil
use.
Define excessive oil consumption, such as the number of miles driven per
liter (quart) of oil used. Also determine customer's driving habits, such as
sustained high speed operation, towing, extended idle and other
considerations.
2.. Verify that the engine has no external oil leak as described under
Engine Oil Leaks in the Diagnosis and Testing portion of this section.
3.. Verify that the engine has the correct oil level dipstick (6750).
4.. Verify that the engine is not being run in an overfilled condition.
Check the oil level at least five minutes after a hot shutdown with the
vehicle parked on a level surface. In no case should the level be above MAX
or the letter F in FULL. If significantly overfilled, carry out Steps 6a
through 6d.
5.. Verify the spark plugs are not oil saturated. If the spark plugs are
oil saturated and compression is good it can be assumed the valve seals or
valve guides are at fault.
6.. Carry out an oil consumption test:
1.. Drain the engine oil, remove the oil bypass filter (6714) and refill
with one liter (quart) less than the recommended amount.
2.. Run the engine for three minutes (10 minutes if cold), and allow the
oil to drain back for at least five minutes with the vehicle on a level
surface.
3.. Remove oil level dipstick and wipe clean. (Do not wipe with anything
contaminated with silicone compounds.) Reinstall the oil level dipstick,
being sure to seat it firmly in the oil level indicator tube (6754). Remove
the oil level dipstick and draw a mark on the back (unmarked) surface at the
indicated oil level. This level should be about the same as the MIN or ADD
mark on the face of the oil level dipstick.
4.. Add one liter (quart) of oil. Restart the engine and allow to idle for
at least two minutes. Shut off the engine and allow the oil to drain back
for at least five minutes. Mark the oil level dipstick, using the procedure
above.
5.. Record the vehicle mileage.
6.. Instruct the customer to drive the vehicle as usual and perform the
following:
a.. Check the oil level regularly at intervals of 160 to 240 km (100-150
miles).
b.. Return to the service point when the oil level drops below the lower
(MIN or ADD) mark on the oil level dipstick.
c.. Add only full liters (quarts) of the same oil in an emergency. Note
the mileage at which the oil is added.
7.. Check the oil level under the same conditions and at the same location
as in Steps 6c and 6d.
a.. Measure the distance from the oil level to the UPPER mark on the oil
level dipstick and record.
b.. Measure the distance between the two scribe marks and record.
c.. Divide the first measurement by the second.
d.. Divide the distance driven during the oil test by the result. This
quantity is the approximate oil consumption rate in kilometers per liter or
in miles per quart.
8.. If the oil consumption rate is unacceptable, go to Step 7.
7.. Check the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system. Make sure the
system is not plugged.
8.. Check for plugged oil drain-back holes in the cylinder heads and
cylinder block.
9.. If the condition still exists after performing the above steps, go to
Step 10.
10.. Perform a cylinder compression test or perform a cylinder leak
detection test with Engine Cylinder Leak Detection/Air Pressurization Kit.
This can help determine the source of oil consumption such as valves, piston
rings or other areas.
11.. NOTE: After determining if new parts should be installed, make sure
correct parts are used.
Check valve guides for excessive guide clearance. Install new all valve
stem seals (6571) after verifying valve guide clearance.
12.. Worn or damaged internal engine components can cause excessive oil
consumption. Small deposits of oil on the tips of spark plugs can be a clue
to internal oil consumption. If internal oil consumption still persists,
proceed as follows:
1.. Remove the engine from the vehicle and place it on an engine work
stand. Remove the intake manifolds (9424), cylinder heads, oil pan (6675)
and oil pump (6600).
2.. Check piston ring clearance, ring gap and ring orientation. Repair as
necessary.
3.. Check for excessive bearing clearance. Repair as necessary.
13.. Repeat the oil consumption test (Step 6) to confirm the oil
consumption concern has been resolved.
Jake said ".... has gone 2800 miles since I put it into
service and I have been checking the oil after every fill up.. Today I
checked it and she was down a quart.........
Snipped some>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The guy just below has a great answer and seems to know what he was taking about........................
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am quite familiar with these motors, I think you may not have any problems
, but let me start by copying the oil consumption test as outlined by Ford
Motor Co below....Please note that in order to be a problem , it needs to
use more than 1 quart per 900 miles . So...your vehicle would need to be
down 3 quarts at 2800 miles for there to be a real problem , you stated it
was down a quart. in 2800 miles so that is not going to be enough no matter
what you or the dealership says. Here is why. Once the dealer gets the real
reading to see exacty what the usage is , they will compare it to this test
procedure. From what you described...1 quart in 2800 miles , it is well
within factory guidlines for the 4.6 . If it is out of line (not out of line
with what you feel , but what the book says), they then are required to call
the Engineering hotline and talk to an engineer. That engineer , not your
dealer will make the determination on what course of repair to take if any.
If the engineer says its ok, there is nothing your dealer can do. These
motors , contrary to what you may read on the internet do use a little oil.
They are not like the motors of 20 years ago as you say , they run hotter ,
they produce more horsepower per liter than ever before and they run higher
oil pressure. Will every overhead cam 4.6 use 1 quart every 2800, no but
some do . It depends on the use of the vehicle , how it was broken in , how
was it treated the first 20,000 miles, did they run 5/20 oil as recomended
?? You and I don't know the answwers to those questions because you bought
it recently used I believe. My advice ? Do not worry about it. I see alot
of these , if you think this is alot you should see the newer overhead cam
cadillacs, they use even more, note I said use not burn , these are all very
effecient , and in Cadillacs case, high horsepower small hard working
engines. General Motors has reprinted its new maintenance books to say "You
are required to check your oil level at avery gasoline fill up" that may
tell you something. I really would not worry about it. As for your comment
about Toyota's not using any oil , you must not be familiar with their mid
90's 3 litre v6 engines! Our dealerships sell Ford , GM , Toyota , 18
franchises in fact and I can tell you not even Toyota would be concerned
about 1 quart in 2800 miles, you should not be either , go enjoy your car ,
the Grand marquis is a great car!
Now I am sure because I work for a dealer group you will think I am biased
and I am ready to be flamed, however , how about a independent well known
non-dealer comment on oil consumption..
Definition: All engines use a small amount of oil over time. It gets past
the piston rings and valve guide seals and is burned in the combustion
chamber. A small amount escapes through the PCV system and a few drops
usually managed to seep through a gasket or seal. The question is at what
point should one consider oil consumption to be a problem? Any engine that
consumes less than a quart of oil every 3000 miles is in excellent
mechanical condition. If it uses less than a quart in 1500 miles, it's still
in pretty good condition. But once oil consumption exceeds a quart every
1000 miles, it signals the engine is approaching retirement. Blue smoke in
the exhaust or oil consumption on the order of a quart or more every 500
miles indicates serious oil burning problems (usually due to worn or broken
piston rings, a cracked piston, or worn valve guides and/or seals).
Sometimes a leaky seal or gasket can make an otherwise good engine use oil.
The most frequent leak points are valve cover gaskets, crankshaft end seals
and oil pan gaskets. Tightening the valve cover or pan bolts can sometimes
stop a leak but usually the only cure is to replace the gasket (See Gasket).
copied from -- http://autorepair.about.com/library/.../bldef-587.htm
Oil Consumption Test
The following diagnostic procedure is used to determine the source of
excessive internal oil consumption.
1.. NOTE: Oil use is normally greater during the first 16,100 km (10,000
miles) of service. As mileage increases, oil use generally decreases.
Vehicles in normal service should get at least 1,450 km per liter (900 miles
per quart) after 16,000 km (10,000 miles) of service. High speed driving,
towing, high ambient temperature and other factors may result in greater oil
use.
Define excessive oil consumption, such as the number of miles driven per
liter (quart) of oil used. Also determine customer's driving habits, such as
sustained high speed operation, towing, extended idle and other
considerations.
2.. Verify that the engine has no external oil leak as described under
Engine Oil Leaks in the Diagnosis and Testing portion of this section.
3.. Verify that the engine has the correct oil level dipstick (6750).
4.. Verify that the engine is not being run in an overfilled condition.
Check the oil level at least five minutes after a hot shutdown with the
vehicle parked on a level surface. In no case should the level be above MAX
or the letter F in FULL. If significantly overfilled, carry out Steps 6a
through 6d.
5.. Verify the spark plugs are not oil saturated. If the spark plugs are
oil saturated and compression is good it can be assumed the valve seals or
valve guides are at fault.
6.. Carry out an oil consumption test:
1.. Drain the engine oil, remove the oil bypass filter (6714) and refill
with one liter (quart) less than the recommended amount.
2.. Run the engine for three minutes (10 minutes if cold), and allow the
oil to drain back for at least five minutes with the vehicle on a level
surface.
3.. Remove oil level dipstick and wipe clean. (Do not wipe with anything
contaminated with silicone compounds.) Reinstall the oil level dipstick,
being sure to seat it firmly in the oil level indicator tube (6754). Remove
the oil level dipstick and draw a mark on the back (unmarked) surface at the
indicated oil level. This level should be about the same as the MIN or ADD
mark on the face of the oil level dipstick.
4.. Add one liter (quart) of oil. Restart the engine and allow to idle for
at least two minutes. Shut off the engine and allow the oil to drain back
for at least five minutes. Mark the oil level dipstick, using the procedure
above.
5.. Record the vehicle mileage.
6.. Instruct the customer to drive the vehicle as usual and perform the
following:
a.. Check the oil level regularly at intervals of 160 to 240 km (100-150
miles).
b.. Return to the service point when the oil level drops below the lower
(MIN or ADD) mark on the oil level dipstick.
c.. Add only full liters (quarts) of the same oil in an emergency. Note
the mileage at which the oil is added.
7.. Check the oil level under the same conditions and at the same location
as in Steps 6c and 6d.
a.. Measure the distance from the oil level to the UPPER mark on the oil
level dipstick and record.
b.. Measure the distance between the two scribe marks and record.
c.. Divide the first measurement by the second.
d.. Divide the distance driven during the oil test by the result. This
quantity is the approximate oil consumption rate in kilometers per liter or
in miles per quart.
8.. If the oil consumption rate is unacceptable, go to Step 7.
7.. Check the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system. Make sure the
system is not plugged.
8.. Check for plugged oil drain-back holes in the cylinder heads and
cylinder block.
9.. If the condition still exists after performing the above steps, go to
Step 10.
10.. Perform a cylinder compression test or perform a cylinder leak
detection test with Engine Cylinder Leak Detection/Air Pressurization Kit.
This can help determine the source of oil consumption such as valves, piston
rings or other areas.
11.. NOTE: After determining if new parts should be installed, make sure
correct parts are used.
Check valve guides for excessive guide clearance. Install new all valve
stem seals (6571) after verifying valve guide clearance.
12.. Worn or damaged internal engine components can cause excessive oil
consumption. Small deposits of oil on the tips of spark plugs can be a clue
to internal oil consumption. If internal oil consumption still persists,
proceed as follows:
1.. Remove the engine from the vehicle and place it on an engine work
stand. Remove the intake manifolds (9424), cylinder heads, oil pan (6675)
and oil pump (6600).
2.. Check piston ring clearance, ring gap and ring orientation. Repair as
necessary.
3.. Check for excessive bearing clearance. Repair as necessary.
13.. Repeat the oil consumption test (Step 6) to confirm the oil
consumption concern has been resolved.
Jake said ".... has gone 2800 miles since I put it into
service and I have been checking the oil after every fill up.. Today I
checked it and she was down a quart.........
Snipped some>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
#2
05-17-2004, 03:01 AM
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Part 2 of story
Ok this is the rest of the post as it was too long to put in one post>>>>>>>>>>>
Jake said ".... has gone 2800 miles since I put it into
service and I have been checking the oil after every fill up.. Today I
checked it and she was down a quart.........
Maybe maybe not, Once the dealer gets the real reading to see exacty what
the usage is , they will compare that to what is normal in the book for that
motor. From what you described...1 quart in 2800 miles it is well within
factory guidlines for the 4.6 . If its out of line (not out of line with
what you feel , but what the book says), they then are required to call the
4.6 engine plant and talk to an engineer. That engineer , not your dealer
will make the determination on what course of repair to take. In these cases
I rarely see a new motor asrrive before repairs are attempted.
Brad
"M Hayes529" <mhayes529@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040326105352.20605.00000179@mb-m07.aol.com...
> Thanks Charlie,
>
> I went back to the dealer yesterday. Both the service writer, the OWNER of
the
> Mercury store and the Mechanic looked at the level of the oil. They all
agreed
> it should not have gone down a quart in between now and then... The oil
was
> changed again and they made a note in the file. I am betting that in two
months
> there will be a new motor coming in for this car......
>
> Jake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Jake said ".... has gone 2800 miles since I put it into
service and I have been checking the oil after every fill up.. Today I
checked it and she was down a quart.........
Maybe maybe not, Once the dealer gets the real reading to see exacty what
the usage is , they will compare that to what is normal in the book for that
motor. From what you described...1 quart in 2800 miles it is well within
factory guidlines for the 4.6 . If its out of line (not out of line with
what you feel , but what the book says), they then are required to call the
4.6 engine plant and talk to an engineer. That engineer , not your dealer
will make the determination on what course of repair to take. In these cases
I rarely see a new motor asrrive before repairs are attempted.
Brad
"M Hayes529" <mhayes529@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040326105352.20605.00000179@mb-m07.aol.com...
> Thanks Charlie,
>
> I went back to the dealer yesterday. Both the service writer, the OWNER of
the
> Mercury store and the Mechanic looked at the level of the oil. They all
agreed
> it should not have gone down a quart in between now and then... The oil
was
> changed again and they made a note in the file. I am betting that in two
months
> there will be a new motor coming in for this car......
>
> Jake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
