60-90 Mph?!?
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From: Humble, Texas
Originally posted by GearHead_1
Talley,
Speaking of freakin' funny, your reply is hilarious. Did you even read his post? You're talking about a relatively unmodified 6 popper with an automatic transmission spinning tires from a 60 m.p.h. roll. Get a clue DOOD (dude), or spelling lessons. Changing the rear end may give him a more usable power band but the engine won't rev faster. The engine will rev from 3,000 to 5,000 in the same amount of time regardless of the rear end's gear ratio. It's more important that he's in the right gear or at the right r.p.m. when he hammers it than the rear end's actual ratio. Assuming his auto kicks down as it's supposed or he down shifts properly his engine will rev. As I said before he would just be starting at a higher RPM or as you put it closer to the band. If you're talking about hooking up from a dead stop or low roll, gears and rear end would be a great recommendation but not at 90 m.p.h.
Talley,
Speaking of freakin' funny, your reply is hilarious. Did you even read his post? You're talking about a relatively unmodified 6 popper with an automatic transmission spinning tires from a 60 m.p.h. roll. Get a clue DOOD (dude), or spelling lessons. Changing the rear end may give him a more usable power band but the engine won't rev faster. The engine will rev from 3,000 to 5,000 in the same amount of time regardless of the rear end's gear ratio. It's more important that he's in the right gear or at the right r.p.m. when he hammers it than the rear end's actual ratio. Assuming his auto kicks down as it's supposed or he down shifts properly his engine will rev. As I said before he would just be starting at a higher RPM or as you put it closer to the band. If you're talking about hooking up from a dead stop or low roll, gears and rear end would be a great recommendation but not at 90 m.p.h.
I can spin that one tire downshifting to 2nd at 50mph, Locker will solve that!
BTW, Dood = Dude = Dood. Got it DOOD
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From: Turnersville, NJ
geardood,
Check out my earlier post. I did this mod and I can tell you for personal experience that my truck REVS FASTER.
and it doesn't enlarge the powerbad(I don;t think)...It lets you rev through it FASTER!!!
Check out my earlier post. I did this mod and I can tell you for personal experience that my truck REVS FASTER.
and it doesn't enlarge the powerbad(I don;t think)...It lets you rev through it FASTER!!!
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From: Turnersville, NJ
OK...are you telling me that I don't know how to read my fuel gauge/tripometer?
Hell, I was pretty suprised myself....I expected my gas mileage to be way worse. Especially since I've been driving with a hevy foot lately. Maybe I got really good gas. Maybe I got the same and MAYBE(notice I said maybe) better gas mileage because the engine revs EASIER even though it is reving a little higher. I'm just letting everyone know my experience so far with the 4.10s...if you don't like my feedback, read something else, but don't call me a liar.
And lastly don't get offended because you need to be corrected on how the whole gear/reving thing works.
Hell, I was pretty suprised myself....I expected my gas mileage to be way worse. Especially since I've been driving with a hevy foot lately. Maybe I got really good gas. Maybe I got the same and MAYBE(notice I said maybe) better gas mileage because the engine revs EASIER even though it is reving a little higher. I'm just letting everyone know my experience so far with the 4.10s...if you don't like my feedback, read something else, but don't call me a liar.
And lastly don't get offended because you need to be corrected on how the whole gear/reving thing works.
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From: Utah
XLT-Sport,
Offended? Don't flatter yourself, I've been slammed a lot harder by people who's opinion I actually respect. I'm not telling you anything and I didn't call you a liar. I just don't agree with what you are stating. The guy that started this thread was looking for some advice that would help his particular set up. After reading his questions and taking a look at his mods and his particular situation, I didn't feel that what was being offered was that type of advice. I think I'm entitled to that opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. So... as you said, if you don't like my comments read something else.
Offended? Don't flatter yourself, I've been slammed a lot harder by people who's opinion I actually respect. I'm not telling you anything and I didn't call you a liar. I just don't agree with what you are stating. The guy that started this thread was looking for some advice that would help his particular set up. After reading his questions and taking a look at his mods and his particular situation, I didn't feel that what was being offered was that type of advice. I think I'm entitled to that opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. So... as you said, if you don't like my comments read something else.
Last edited by GearHead_1; Aug 23, 2002 at 12:26 AM.
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From: Turnersville, NJ
First of all, I do have the same setup as him with the 4.10s and Eaton Posi so I would know what would help.
Plus, what your telling him is false...this is your first post
It doesn't look you even offered any advice. Just some incorrect statements that gears don't make your engine rev faster/easier and posi units don't give you better traction.....hmmm I wonder why they make gears and posi tractions.
RedFlareside2000,
gears WILL help your acceleration at ALL speeds especially when off the line, but it definitely helps at the high end as well. (I have the same truck as you, except the sport package and styleside)
Plus, what your telling him is false...this is your first post
Gears won't make the engine rev faster. You'll just be running around at higher R's to start with when you're at 60. A PosiTrac or a Locker won't do anything for you at those speeds either. Economy will be the downside.
RedFlareside2000,
gears WILL help your acceleration at ALL speeds especially when off the line, but it definitely helps at the high end as well. (I have the same truck as you, except the sport package and styleside)
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From: Beaverton OR
Less fighty more talky guys?!?!?
Just kidding....
Hey just thought i would ask?!?!
But then my next question is.....
If i get 4:10, would it make a difference if i put a lim.slip or not????
asuming " TALLEY" that i dont have a traction problem, im running 267.75.r16....BFgoodrench allterrain tko's.... btw... ??????
I not sure if i would gain form the LS if i dont have a traction problem, maybe im wrong???
No offence talley, im just not as fast as you are......yet
Just kidding....
Hey just thought i would ask?!?!
But then my next question is.....
If i get 4:10, would it make a difference if i put a lim.slip or not????
asuming " TALLEY" that i dont have a traction problem, im running 267.75.r16....BFgoodrench allterrain tko's.... btw... ??????
I not sure if i would gain form the LS if i dont have a traction problem, maybe im wrong???
No offence talley, im just not as fast as you are......yet
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From: Turnersville, NJ
redflareside,
the thing is, with the 4.10s, you'll be putting more power to the wheels. The gears don't generate HP but your drivesaft is spinning faster which = more power/torque. Chances are you will have traction problems spinning one tire especially when launching.
the thing is, with the 4.10s, you'll be putting more power to the wheels. The gears don't generate HP but your drivesaft is spinning faster which = more power/torque. Chances are you will have traction problems spinning one tire especially when launching.
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From: Humble, Texas
Originally posted by XLT-Sport
redflareside,
the thing is, with the 4.10s, you'll be putting more power to the wheels. The gears don't generate HP but your drivesaft is spinning faster which = more power/torque. Chances are you will have traction problems spinning one tire especially when launching.
redflareside,
the thing is, with the 4.10s, you'll be putting more power to the wheels. The gears don't generate HP but your drivesaft is spinning faster which = more power/torque. Chances are you will have traction problems spinning one tire especially when launching.
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From: Turnersville, NJ
ok...I'm a little confused now. I think I understand what you're saying but not 100%.
I know the gears don't make your engine produce more torque, but tell me if this is right....
A lower gear increases the torque multiplication so...your engine is delivering more torque to your wheels at a given speed.
The amount of torque per RPM is the same as before, it just gets to the tires at a lower speed...
How does that sound? Right/Wrong/Stupid?
I know the gears don't make your engine produce more torque, but tell me if this is right....
A lower gear increases the torque multiplication so...your engine is delivering more torque to your wheels at a given speed.
The amount of torque per RPM is the same as before, it just gets to the tires at a lower speed...
How does that sound? Right/Wrong/Stupid?
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From: Central AZ
Hmmm.
Interesting discussion. The more I think about it. . .the more interesting it gets, too.
Theory can sometimes be misleading, especially when talking about gearing. One would think that a higher numerical gear would help this situation by allowing the engine to rev. higher at the same speed. I don't necessarily think that revving higher is the solution here, with an automatic and wanting more punch from a rather healthy roll. In fact, it might hurt his top end roll-ons by moving him further out of the peak torque area of the power curve. Now before you guys scoff, I am thinking this assuming he has no hardcore engine mods that would allow him to rev higher (moving his max torque higher in the RPM band) and with the understanding that his torque converter is stock.
What you want is to get the engine RPM's back down to the max torque output zone of the engine. This would mean slightly lower numerical rear end gearing. It will allow your converter to stay at it's maximum stall speed longer, too, applying even more torque. Next, you want to focus in on mods that increase llow and mid range torque and not top end horsepower. Cold air induction also greatly helps torque output. Chips, Low pressure drop air filters, a chambered 2.5" I/O muffler with single 2.5" full tail pipe exhaust, and increased valve lift (but not duration) are examples of mods that will enhance the low to mid range torque output of your truck. . .which is exactly what you want when lugging against a tall rear gear for extended amounts of time (like 60-90 mph roll-ons).
Avoid mods that increase your rear gear ratio numerically (like shorter sidewall tires), large diameter intake tubes, ported or larger diameter throttle body bores, large diameter or full dual exhaust systems, etc. These mods are more suited for higher revving engines that will see extended amounts of time at or near the rev-limiter (if it's still active. . .) like serious drag cars/trucks, or maximum hp effort dyno pulls. On the street, with a heavy vehicle, and an automatic tranny, you live or die by how much torque you make, and how long you keep you engine where it makes that torque.
Five speed vehicles play by slightly different rules (mainly due to their internal gearing and ability to apply power and torque directly instead of through hydraulic coupling). So what Talley recommended is correct - for a 5-speed, drag racing. I think Talley even stipulated that in his reply.
Soon I will be posting some information for all you fellow automatic V6 brothers that will truly make your truck launch, hook, and accelerate every bit as fast (if not faster and more consistantly) than our 5-speed brothers. I only have one more component to aquire and test and then the formula will be complete- and no, Talley, it's not an aftermarket converter. : )
I hope this info helps,
---J
Interesting discussion. The more I think about it. . .the more interesting it gets, too.
Theory can sometimes be misleading, especially when talking about gearing. One would think that a higher numerical gear would help this situation by allowing the engine to rev. higher at the same speed. I don't necessarily think that revving higher is the solution here, with an automatic and wanting more punch from a rather healthy roll. In fact, it might hurt his top end roll-ons by moving him further out of the peak torque area of the power curve. Now before you guys scoff, I am thinking this assuming he has no hardcore engine mods that would allow him to rev higher (moving his max torque higher in the RPM band) and with the understanding that his torque converter is stock.
What you want is to get the engine RPM's back down to the max torque output zone of the engine. This would mean slightly lower numerical rear end gearing. It will allow your converter to stay at it's maximum stall speed longer, too, applying even more torque. Next, you want to focus in on mods that increase llow and mid range torque and not top end horsepower. Cold air induction also greatly helps torque output. Chips, Low pressure drop air filters, a chambered 2.5" I/O muffler with single 2.5" full tail pipe exhaust, and increased valve lift (but not duration) are examples of mods that will enhance the low to mid range torque output of your truck. . .which is exactly what you want when lugging against a tall rear gear for extended amounts of time (like 60-90 mph roll-ons).
Avoid mods that increase your rear gear ratio numerically (like shorter sidewall tires), large diameter intake tubes, ported or larger diameter throttle body bores, large diameter or full dual exhaust systems, etc. These mods are more suited for higher revving engines that will see extended amounts of time at or near the rev-limiter (if it's still active. . .) like serious drag cars/trucks, or maximum hp effort dyno pulls. On the street, with a heavy vehicle, and an automatic tranny, you live or die by how much torque you make, and how long you keep you engine where it makes that torque.
Five speed vehicles play by slightly different rules (mainly due to their internal gearing and ability to apply power and torque directly instead of through hydraulic coupling). So what Talley recommended is correct - for a 5-speed, drag racing. I think Talley even stipulated that in his reply.
Soon I will be posting some information for all you fellow automatic V6 brothers that will truly make your truck launch, hook, and accelerate every bit as fast (if not faster and more consistantly) than our 5-speed brothers. I only have one more component to aquire and test and then the formula will be complete- and no, Talley, it's not an aftermarket converter. : )
I hope this info helps,
---J
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From: Humble, Texas
Originally posted by WrongdayJ
Avoid mods that increase your rear gear ratio numerically (like shorter sidewall tires), large diameter intake tubes, ported or larger diameter throttle body bores, large diameter or full dual exhaust systems, etc. These mods are more suited for higher revving engines that will see extended amounts of time at or near the rev-limiter (if it's still active. . .) like serious drag cars/trucks, or maximum hp effort dyno pulls. On the street, with a heavy vehicle, and an automatic tranny, you live or die by how much torque you make, and how long you keep you engine where it makes that torque.---J
Avoid mods that increase your rear gear ratio numerically (like shorter sidewall tires), large diameter intake tubes, ported or larger diameter throttle body bores, large diameter or full dual exhaust systems, etc. These mods are more suited for higher revving engines that will see extended amounts of time at or near the rev-limiter (if it's still active. . .) like serious drag cars/trucks, or maximum hp effort dyno pulls. On the street, with a heavy vehicle, and an automatic tranny, you live or die by how much torque you make, and how long you keep you engine where it makes that torque.---J
hehe, true true....
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From: Central AZ
I knew you were gonna ask that.
I intend on putting in 4.30's with a LS differential because I am interested in 0-60 and going mid to high RPM for short bursts (road courses, twisty back roads, etc.). . .not so much for top speed runs or high speed punches. I am seriously considering the 4.10's instead though for this very reason. I don't want to blast through the gears and not be packing significant speed, but at the same time, I don't want to be able to hold 1st gear until 47 MPH either. The 4.30 is the gear of choice for track usage, no doubt. But I do intend on this being a street truck first and foremost, so I guess I'll have to ride along in some more trucks that have these ratios and see what I think.
Don't want to be just another tire burner, you know. People might think I have a 5-speed or something.
Later,
I intend on putting in 4.30's with a LS differential because I am interested in 0-60 and going mid to high RPM for short bursts (road courses, twisty back roads, etc.). . .not so much for top speed runs or high speed punches. I am seriously considering the 4.10's instead though for this very reason. I don't want to blast through the gears and not be packing significant speed, but at the same time, I don't want to be able to hold 1st gear until 47 MPH either. The 4.30 is the gear of choice for track usage, no doubt. But I do intend on this being a street truck first and foremost, so I guess I'll have to ride along in some more trucks that have these ratios and see what I think.
Don't want to be just another tire burner, you know. People might think I have a 5-speed or something.
Later,