is the 4.2 known to be a little noisy?
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,636
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From: Vernon, NY
The old body style had a cast iron block and heads... which is way better.
plus with all these dang sensors stuffed into the engine bay, one little misfire sets off a whole chain of problems- of which most likely a dealer can only service. have you guys seen the engine covers on most cars lately? on a Caddy you HAVE to take it into a dealer to get the oil changed. you cant see a dang thing. tisk-tisk just wondering how long until they do this to the trucks...
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: detroit
Knock on start up
My truck seems to be a little noisey for a little bit (maybe a couple minutes)while it warms up. its sound like light knocking are clattering. Other that that truck sounds good when warm. I have 96k on the truck. I used 5w30 castrol and a bottle of lucas oil with a fram filter on the last oil change. Thanks
I am the Technical Training Manager for FRAM filters. Ford issued a TSB in 2001 changing oil recommendations on your truck to 05W20 though I doubt that is the cause of your concern. Try switching to a FRAM Tough Guard filter with a silicone antidrainback valave and see what happens. There are no service bullitens that address knock on start up for the 4.2
Let's get some Bosch plugs while we're at it.
Sorry dude, but NOTHING except for OEM Motorcraft for these engines if you are smart
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: detroit
ok
No science behind what you are saying, you are entitled to your opinion.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 43,535
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From: Joplin MO
Not just my opinion, sir - the first and second link have science behind it.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...ence.html#fram
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/fram1.txt
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil.../opinions.html
If you have proof that things have changed recently, I'd be interested in hearing it.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...ence.html#fram
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/fram1.txt
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil.../opinions.html
If you have proof that things have changed recently, I'd be interested in hearing it.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 43,535
Likes: 817
From: Joplin MO
To be totally fair, he recommended a Tough Guard - which as I said, is "okay". From the article:
It is on his "recommended" list:
My major concern is how many people are going to buy a (white) Tough Guard? Being ignorant, most people are going to grab the orange one, which I assume is cheaper and more widely available.
It is on his "avoid" list:
Fram Tough Guard TG8A
This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.
The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: a thicker backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. When you look through the inlet holes, you can see the orange anti-drainback valve. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.
The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: a thicker backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. When you look through the inlet holes, you can see the orange anti-drainback valve. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Fram Tough Guard
Even with all the problems of the other Fram filters, this one is not too bad. It has a heavier filter element with more surface area, a silicone anti-drainback valve, the cheap pressure relief valve, but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The only other drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal. Looking in through the center outlet does not reveal any paper end caps, but they are there. I personally do not use this filter, but the design didn't have enough bad qualities to cause me to tell others to avoid it.
Even with all the problems of the other Fram filters, this one is not too bad. It has a heavier filter element with more surface area, a silicone anti-drainback valve, the cheap pressure relief valve, but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The only other drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal. Looking in through the center outlet does not reveal any paper end caps, but they are there. I personally do not use this filter, but the design didn't have enough bad qualities to cause me to tell others to avoid it.
Fram Extra Guard PH8A
This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are bonded in place using a thermal adhesive. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap. In practice these seem to leak, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you use this filter and have a noisy valve train at startup, the filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak when they should be closed. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.
The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin-looking backplate. There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are bonded in place using a thermal adhesive. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap. In practice these seem to leak, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you use this filter and have a noisy valve train at startup, the filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak when they should be closed. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.
The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin-looking backplate. There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Fram Extra Guard
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 51
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From: detroit
Fram
To be totally fair, he recommended a Tough Guard - which as I said, is "okay". From the article:
It is on his "recommended" list:
My major concern is how many people are going to buy a (white) Tough Guard? Being ignorant, most people are going to grab the orange one, which I assume is cheaper and more widely available.
It is on his "avoid" list:
It is on his "recommended" list:
My major concern is how many people are going to buy a (white) Tough Guard? Being ignorant, most people are going to grab the orange one, which I assume is cheaper and more widely available.
It is on his "avoid" list:
There is no "cardboard" in any FRAM filter. It is an engineered fiber media, very similar to the filter media. Look at the inside of any filter, what do you see? Looks like well.. cardboard. It is not, it is very scientifically engineered filer media consisting of different fibers dependent on the quality of the media. The number of pleats in a filter has nothing to do with its ability to clean your oil. the engineering behind the media is what really matters.
think about this-
Who sets the standards for which OE filters are tested to? It used to be SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). In 2002, the international (ISO) standard became the accepted standard. FRAM tests all of its aftermarket filters to those standards and posts the results right on the box and website. Motorcraft does not. Ask the person selling you Motorcraft what the single or multi pass efficiency is of that filter? Its not published anywhere I can find. What about capacity? Again, could not find that published anywhere either. the 'study" you refer to is an opinion and nothing more. If you want unbiased information about oil filters, go to www.filtercouncil.org/ . this is the website for all manufacturers and they set the performance standards. Sorry for yelling but it is getting old hearing guys who are knowledgeable enthusiasts just rrepeating what they "heard". Filter efficiency and capacity are what you all should be concerned about. FRAM makes five grades of filters
ExtraGuard, what you see all the time in stores 95% efficiency
Tough Guard- 99% efficient, synthetic media and silicone antidrainback valves
HP racing filters- high flow, 350-400psi burst strength for race cars and trucks
High mileage- Like extra Guard with an additve timed release basket inside to condition oil, maintain ph balance and corrosion inhibition in high mile vehicles.
AND
Fram Exteneded guard- A filter that nothing else in the market compares to.
It has two ply full synthetic filter media.
the media is wrapped around a stainless steel screen for support, metal end caps to support the screen. Silicone antidrainback valve, 97% efficiency at 20 microns particle size. capacity is so good (26 gramms on the XG8A) that we can stand behind it for 10k oil changes when used with a quality synthetic.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: detroit
Sorry you feel that way but what your saying is simply not true from a filtering the oil standpoint. Please explain what you are saying, where your getting our facts from, I sure hope its not the mini-mopar site. No science there at all.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 51
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From: detroit
www.filtercouncil.org/
I stick by the omen "you get what you pay for" and with Fram Filters a good $3-4 cheaper than the cheapest OEM....well, you roll the dice on that one.
BTW MotorKing, WTF is a '67 F-150? I've never seen one of them!
BTW MotorKing, WTF is a '67 F-150? I've never seen one of them!