whipple blower ???
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From: North Carolina
Not defensive. It's not my ride. No need to defend it. Just pointing out what you conveniently did not. Like completely ignoring the dyno graphs stated boost levels.
No offense Crash but we all get it. You are die hard ProCharger. Thats obvious by the big ole ProCharger dump you take in nearly every thread regardless of topic or question
. You have to bring up the same numbers same three trucks etc etc. Sorry man, it just gets old.
No offense Crash but we all get it. You are die hard ProCharger. Thats obvious by the big ole ProCharger dump you take in nearly every thread regardless of topic or question
. You have to bring up the same numbers same three trucks etc etc. Sorry man, it just gets old.
Last edited by twinskrewd; Oct 16, 2013 at 02:49 PM.
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From: missing Texas...
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Also note worthy is that you are trying to compare a ProCharger F1A blower to the Whipple 2.3. Let's see, is it really a fair comparison. Are they equal blowers?
F1A 1575 CFM 3.75" inlet
Whipple 2.3 1431CFM or 1389CFM (early models) 2.92" inlet.
F1A 1575 CFM 3.75" inlet
Whipple 2.3 1431CFM or 1389CFM (early models) 2.92" inlet.
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From: missing Texas...
Why defensive over the best video and graph of as close to the combination he will be running?
I am comparing the ROOTS/SCREW to a centrifugal. The SCREW typically has a flat power band where the centrifugal will rise with RPM. And the airflow is always going to be a concern, as is tuning. The bottom line is neither my video or yours are on trucks that are maximized. But we see characteristics that we can compare. This is the point of the thread, to consider all factors in success.
I also noted that his intercooler pump was failing intermittently. Probably a big factor in the power dropping off. But still, the ProCharger will be climbing significantly at higher RPM.
I am comparing the ROOTS/SCREW to a centrifugal. The SCREW typically has a flat power band where the centrifugal will rise with RPM. And the airflow is always going to be a concern, as is tuning. The bottom line is neither my video or yours are on trucks that are maximized. But we see characteristics that we can compare. This is the point of the thread, to consider all factors in success.
I also noted that his intercooler pump was failing intermittently. Probably a big factor in the power dropping off. But still, the ProCharger will be climbing significantly at higher RPM.
the twin screw is different than a roots style so comparing them as one and the same is not a good thing to do expecially on a forum where there are a lot of cherries when it comes to actual performance mods
and one more thing, Whipple offers larger compressors than the baby 2.3
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Straight up no holds barred drag racing only vehicle a turbo will flat out eat the twinscrew and procharger. The worlds fastest Lightnings are turbo charged. http://www.nloc.net/vbforum/times-mo...0-et-list.html But notice how close the worlds fastest twinscrew and procharger are. Also notice the Procharged truck is sporting 96 more cubic inches of motor and is only 4 hundredths of a second faster. So why would I bother with a Procharger?? I would go turbo for an all out build. For a street/strip truck with an automatic trans you can't find better performance then a twinscrew.
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From: missing Texas...
100% fact!!!
which is why a lot of engine bays go from this:
to this:
to this:
Last edited by stoffer; Oct 16, 2013 at 02:41 PM.
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Yes Flux a mid plate is what would allow you to bolt nearly any blower on. Top side would match the blower you want and bottom side would match the intake you have. Side note: I always dreamed of building a midplate with it's own intercooler. It would be thin yes but then you would have two intercoolers.
Glad you clarified the 750 hp. That changes things. 600rwhp is easy to achieve with the 2.3 Whipple provided you choose that blower. The Procharger DS1 can also get you there. Further you won't need the high dollar billet parts and such. 5.4's rated to 900-1000 do not have these high end parts. As I was researching parts and suppliers for my build I found http://mhpengines.com/home to have the best prices and parts combos. It also doesn't hurt that they have 0 customer complaints. Impressive. I also fond these guys for head work. Very best prices by far and beautiful work. http://www.proweldperformanceparts.com/id91.html
Also worthy of your attention is JDM. They have more 3 valve experience and success then anyone. http://www.teamjdm.com/jdm-news/
One of the top engine builders for stock and super stock. They are setting records. One stop shopping for everything from start to finish including tuning. There's a few threads floating around where they were working with a mid-plate for a larger blower. Don't remember the details but I'll try and find it.
Last edited by twinskrewd; Oct 16, 2013 at 02:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by Crash!;
So, let's look at Manny's. I called them first. Bear in mind these prices are for 2 valve engines and I am awaiting a call back on the 3 valve costs, and warranty coverage, if any. I suggest a long block, and if you are going to spend $4700 on a Stage I long block, then spend an additional $500 and go with a Stage II. Good for up to 800 HP, which gives you room to play. Do you need a port and stainless valves? No, but it all depends on your budget. CNC porting would be the ultimate.
This is what Manny's offers but I am awaiting pricing for the 3 valve. Do you need porting and cams? Not necessarily, but if budget allows, I would do a Stage II blower cam and all the goodies. On my two valve, it was not an issue, but on yours, we need to consider the cam phaser lockout. While you have the block out, install a good set of long tubes. They go in a lot easier when installed with the engine.
[url
So, let's look at Manny's. I called them first. Bear in mind these prices are for 2 valve engines and I am awaiting a call back on the 3 valve costs, and warranty coverage, if any. I suggest a long block, and if you are going to spend $4700 on a Stage I long block, then spend an additional $500 and go with a Stage II. Good for up to 800 HP, which gives you room to play. Do you need a port and stainless valves? No, but it all depends on your budget. CNC porting would be the ultimate.
This is what Manny's offers but I am awaiting pricing for the 3 valve. Do you need porting and cams? Not necessarily, but if budget allows, I would do a Stage II blower cam and all the goodies. On my two valve, it was not an issue, but on yours, we need to consider the cam phaser lockout. While you have the block out, install a good set of long tubes. They go in a lot easier when installed with the engine.
[url
http://mhpengines.com/54_long_block[/url]
$4799 for a Stage I engine.
$5299 for a Stage II engine.
And to start with, they have a 2 gallon reservoir with provisions for ice. Just the ticket to increase intercooler capacity.
http://mhpengines.com/mhp_big_mouth_intercooler_ice_box
Now let's see... Pro-Weld Performance. They are big on the DOHC engine but can do the 3 valve. They have cited weakness in the heads over the years, so they recommend their CNC machines heads on the long block they build. No numbers off the top of their head, so I am waiting on a call back for pricing.
So Flux, your budget will dictate where we go with this one. Call me so I can talk through this in detail. There is no doubt we will use the biggest Whipple we can bolt up!
$4799 for a Stage I engine.
$5299 for a Stage II engine.
And to start with, they have a 2 gallon reservoir with provisions for ice. Just the ticket to increase intercooler capacity.
http://mhpengines.com/mhp_big_mouth_intercooler_ice_box
Now let's see... Pro-Weld Performance. They are big on the DOHC engine but can do the 3 valve. They have cited weakness in the heads over the years, so they recommend their CNC machines heads on the long block they build. No numbers off the top of their head, so I am waiting on a call back for pricing.
So Flux, your budget will dictate where we go with this one. Call me so I can talk through this in detail. There is no doubt we will use the biggest Whipple we can bolt up!
While this is being done I planned to send the heads to http://www.proweldperformanceparts.com/id91.html for the stage 2 package. They will install the springs needed for the Comp cams at no extra charge. According to JDM stainless valves are not needed and the valves we have are the most desirable. Order Comp Cam 127350 or 127450. JDM recommended the use of Ford/Motorcraft timing kit/parts, Ford head bolts, Ford gasket kit all of which are priced best at RockAuto, and an oil pump upgrade from JDM.
All said and done I would have my 5.4 ready to withstand 900hp for under $4500.
Last edited by twinskrewd; Oct 16, 2013 at 07:50 PM.
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holy crap thanx for ALL your imput guys.. i like the ice box, never seen one of those... ive talked to the guy at proweld for about an hour a couple months ago, nice guy no BS just facts, ill prob have them build me a long block, still thinking about a 2 valve lighting motor with a set of ported trickflows which would allow me to run the whipple 3.4 upgrade kit
....
the dyno run with the 2 valve lighting was impressive...
and( I think) would be cheaper to build than a 3 valve...the procharger was also cool i like the wine... anyway ill have to ponder this awhile i guess my goal is to make 600 to 650 RWHP without race gas or water/meth injection...
....the dyno run with the 2 valve lighting was impressive...
and( I think) would be cheaper to build than a 3 valve...the procharger was also cool i like the wine... anyway ill have to ponder this awhile i guess my goal is to make 600 to 650 RWHP without race gas or water/meth injection...
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There is no way I'd switch back to a 2 valve, sure they make plenty of power, I've run trick flow heads and they are great, heck I just installed a set over the weekend but the stock 3 valve head flows as well as a trickflow in stock form
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Trickflow heads are over 2000 bucks period even dealer cost is more than 1700 bucks, if I was building a 2v which I am for my car it will always get trickflow heads they work period I'm running there new 195cc heads that are designed for the boss block and boost I'm building a 5.3 stroker for my tbird but again a different animal than a 3v, but either works well for boost
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The heads are inter-changeable Crash. The 08-10 heads feature the 12mm plug design and a different coil with a brown boot and engineering code 8L3E. 04-07 use the 16mm two piece plug. Coils have black boots and engineering code 3L3E. Other than that they will swap. No issue.
Also the stock heads flow 224cfm with a .600 cam and can be ported to flow just over 300cfm. 2v Trick Flow heads are done at 250cfm.
Here's some atock head 3v numbers
Intake
Lift----Stock CFM------CNC Porting CFM
.100-----77.1--------------75.3
.200----147.0-------------162.0
.300----199.6-------------228.3
.400----216.0-------------273.8
.500----223.2-------------283.6
.600----224.8-------------292.9
Exhaust
Lift----Stock CFM-----CNC Porting CFM
.100-----52.7-------------46.2
.200-----97.8------------104.3
.300----120.2------------135.7
.400----138.1------------163.2
.500----148.2------------177.0
.600----153.7------------189.6
Also the stock heads flow 224cfm with a .600 cam and can be ported to flow just over 300cfm. 2v Trick Flow heads are done at 250cfm.
Here's some atock head 3v numbers
Intake
Lift----Stock CFM------CNC Porting CFM
.100-----77.1--------------75.3
.200----147.0-------------162.0
.300----199.6-------------228.3
.400----216.0-------------273.8
.500----223.2-------------283.6
.600----224.8-------------292.9
Exhaust
Lift----Stock CFM-----CNC Porting CFM
.100-----52.7-------------46.2
.200-----97.8------------104.3
.300----120.2------------135.7
.400----138.1------------163.2
.500----148.2------------177.0
.600----153.7------------189.6
Last edited by twinskrewd; Oct 17, 2013 at 01:22 PM.
