What is DSHS up to?
#31
FLETC lists that they shoot approximately 15 million rounds per year. Over a five year period (the amount of time the contracts cover) they shoot approximately 75 million rounds. Subtract that from the 1.6 billion rounds purchased and you arrive at 995 million rounds to be fired over the next 5 years.
#33
Yup my bad. Thanks for the correction. Figuring approximately 90k (since that is the middle of the estimate) officers/agents qualifying/training on the special use weapons some quarterly some yearly depending on agency policy. There is easily another several hundred million rounds of ammo in addition to the numbers I've already laid out. For example a shotgun has two types of ammo buck and slug. Training and qualification for each type of ammo is expected. 10-15 rounds seems like a low number for a weapons system, but I could see some agencies shooting that little. 20-30 seems about right. But either way. Go with 10 rounds per person per quarter. You're looking at 900,000 per quarter just in shotgun ammo. Over the five year period you're looking at 18 million rounds just for the LEOs not in SRT or the USCG. I would expect the M-4's and MP-5's the to use much more ammo for qualification and training for a basic officer/agent. More on the line of 100-150. That works out to roughly 180 million just for the M-4, not including SRT or the USCG. Both SRT and the USCG use the M-4 extensively. SRT trains on it a lot and shoots a lot more than 100-150 rounds per quarter. The number of officers/agents on SRT are very difficult to come by even being in the agency.
Last edited by 1depd; 03-09-2013 at 08:15 AM.
#34
You keep spouting off these numbers, but do not show anywhere you can see these numbers. So far I have yet to find even 60k agents that could be armed, including CBP (including A&M), SS, ICE, and Air Marshals. I do not include the CG as they would seldom be armed and there weapons would be part of a ships equipment, not personal firearms, just like in any military organization. Just give us pointers on where all the rounds fired would occur. I have at least tried to find the numbers, but so far all I have come up with is what I have pointers to.
Some of those estimates are why there is a large swing in the estimated number of officers/agents. Another reason that adds the the large range in the estimates is due to having the internal knowledge of how many people some of the agencies have and they do not want released. Sorry I'm not going back to searching all of the websites again. I do have a life outside this forum, but most of the numbers are out there to be found.
#35
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Sorry, but DHS only uses about 15 million rounds per year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphben...-conversation/
#36
Sorry, but DHS only uses about 15 million rounds per year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphben...-conversation/
Just a shrewd bulk buy on ammo, or somehting more???? 'Something more' seems to be outposting the 'no big deal' by about 20:1.
Folks, the government is printing money like crazy, and whenever interest rates resume a realistic reflection of risk, we will not be able to pay our current debt, much less keep borrowing more.
Eventually, the real inflation will hit and interest rates will rise, and the real pain/unrest will start.
Seems to me the government is preparing for those changes, and they feel the need for some ammo and armor. It's not about securing the border and arresting some terrorists.
#37
Sorry, but DHS only uses about 15 million rounds per year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphben...-conversation/
#38
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Sorry, but you have grossly overestimated the number of people that are needing this ammo for routine training and carry. I just looked up one agency that you stated (ICE) and you mentioned they had 40-50 thousand agents. They only have just over 20,000 employees. Total. And all of them do not use/need ammo. I didnt even bother looking up any other agency after that since you missed that one by 50%. As for beating a dead horse, you sure are working very hard in this thread to convince everyone that this is SOP.
Its impossible for DHS to need 325,000,000 rounds of ammo per year without some stockpiling going on.
Its impossible for DHS to need 325,000,000 rounds of ammo per year without some stockpiling going on.
Last edited by Frank S; 03-11-2013 at 09:06 PM.
#39
Sorry, but you have grossly overestimated the number of people that are needing this ammo for routine training and carry. I just looked up one agency that you stated (ICE) and you mentioned they had 40-50 thousand agents. They only have just over 20,000 employees. Total. And all of them do not use/need ammo. I didnt even bother looking up any other agency after that since you missed that one by 50%. As for beating a dead horse, you sure are working very hard in this thread to convince everyone that this is SOP.
Its impossible for DHS to need 325,000,000 rounds of ammo per year without some stockpiling going on.
Its impossible for DHS to need 325,000,000 rounds of ammo per year without some stockpiling going on.
There are plenty of places this government is doing shady things. Complaining about something that is a non-issue not only makes you lose creditability for those issues that need to be addressed, it makes you look like a conspiracy theory nut case.
Last edited by 1depd; 03-11-2013 at 09:36 PM.
#40
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I never said anything about any conspiracy theory. Like Kingfish stated before, your numbers just dont jive from the numbers of agents that qualify to the numbers of rounds they fire per year. To call it a "non issue" is ridiculous. Especially when the govt typically orders ammunition by the million(s).
Like I stated before, theres no way to have a use for this amount of ammo without stockpiling. All you have to do is look at what they have ordered in the past.
Like I stated before, theres no way to have a use for this amount of ammo without stockpiling. All you have to do is look at what they have ordered in the past.
#41
I never said anything about any conspiracy theory. Like Kingfish stated before, your numbers just dont jive from the numbers of agents that qualify to the numbers of rounds they fire per year. To call it a "non issue" is ridiculous. Especially when the govt typically orders ammunition by the million(s).
#43
The only place I've seen the 70k number tossed around is with an interview with Mrs. Dixon of the FLETC or articles quoting Mrs. Dixon. Unfortunately she was talking about the number of officers/agents who have used the FLETC ranges to shoot. She did not qualify her statements as the 70k being only from DHS. Last year none of my co-workers used any FLETC range, so the rounds we shot are not included in her interview and none of my co-workers are included in the 70k number.
#44
Fun Facts with Math:
A typical 5.56 / .223 round is 2.25" long. End to end, 1.6 billion rounds would wrap around the equator 2.286 times. Or you could make a chain from New York to Los Angeles.... 20.37 times.
A typical 9 mm round is 1.15" long. End to end, 1.6 billion rounds would wrap around the equator 1.17 times, or go from New York to LA 10.41 times.
Assuming an MRAP is 25' long, a line of 2,700 MRAP's would be 12.78 miles long.
If you fired one round EVERY SECOND, it would take 50.73 years to fire 1.6 billion rounds.
If you need to fire 1.6 billion rounds in 5 years, you will have to fire 10.15 rounds every second, 24/7/365.
That's a lot of range time and a lot of heat being generated. Seems like the global warming alarmists should be raising a fit. If any private business needed to expend that much heat and gas into the atmosphere, the government would bury them with red tape and require an EIR, lol.
A typical 5.56 / .223 round is 2.25" long. End to end, 1.6 billion rounds would wrap around the equator 2.286 times. Or you could make a chain from New York to Los Angeles.... 20.37 times.
A typical 9 mm round is 1.15" long. End to end, 1.6 billion rounds would wrap around the equator 1.17 times, or go from New York to LA 10.41 times.
Assuming an MRAP is 25' long, a line of 2,700 MRAP's would be 12.78 miles long.
If you fired one round EVERY SECOND, it would take 50.73 years to fire 1.6 billion rounds.
If you need to fire 1.6 billion rounds in 5 years, you will have to fire 10.15 rounds every second, 24/7/365.
That's a lot of range time and a lot of heat being generated. Seems like the global warming alarmists should be raising a fit. If any private business needed to expend that much heat and gas into the atmosphere, the government would bury them with red tape and require an EIR, lol.
Last edited by dirt bike dave; 03-12-2013 at 11:31 AM.