I'm coming home from work tonight on a four lane road when a woman in the right lane decides she's going to stop to allow someone who doesn't have the right of way out to make a turn. He t-boned the side of my truck catching the passenger side front and rear door, cab, and some of the bed.

I know it's a total speculation call, but anyone able to guess what'll happen with the truck (repair or total)? It's an 04 with 89000 miles supercrew. The rear passenger door has a gap at the top probably a half inch wide.

Links to:

Truck from the front to the back: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Top of door, closed: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

From back forward: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Like I said, I know it's fully speculative, but does anyone have a guess?

Thanks all,
Mike

 

Well, the pics are of poor quality, and give a very unclear picture of the whole job, but I'll give it a whirl. I'm guessing by the gap on the top of the rear door is a result of the post it is bolted to being pushed in slightly on the bottom, or it could be a collapsed door frame, or hinge, or a combination of all 3. My guess there is to replace the door shell, and lower hinge, and a 4 hour frame rack setup and pull on the post.

The front door looks like it would be best to put a door skin on, and repair the existing shell. The cab corner is fixable easily enough, but if it were mine I would absolutely insist that after it is fixed they remove the inner trim panel on the corner and wax oil/rust proof that area, or it would rust out in less than a year. I'll call the cab corner a 6 hour fix judging by the pics. Plus removal of the box to get proper access.

The box panel looks minor. Couple hours of repair should take care of it.

My best guess is about 25 hours body time, and another 15 or so in paint time, plus parts plus materials. At $100 per hour, you are around 4 grand in labor. I honestly am not sure of the parts prices, but I'll guess at 1200 for a skin and a shell. Add materials cost for paint, sandpaper, bondo, adhesives, ect, none of which are cheap.

Bottom line, I guess $6500 - $8000 in damage. What is the truck worth in your market? 70% of its value in damage usually writes it off.

 

Thanks for the thoughts!

I'm sorry about the photo quality. I took the picture standing in the best buy parking lot after getting a memory card for my phone. As far as the value of the vehicle in the local market I'm kind of unsure. KBB says in the local area a retailer would sell the truck "in excellent condition" for about 15000. My truck, unfortunately, is not in "excellent condition" maybe good (maybe, it was actually in an accident about 2 months ago when a guy changed lanes into the side of it... the other side of it).

I haven't really had a chance to really really look at the vehicle. It's cold and getting dark outside so anything I do so far just seems to make it worse (opening the door is causing it to scrape the b-pillar). I've been trying to look at the sill portion of the truck to see how badly damaged that may be. Tomorrow I'm doing brake work on my girlfriends car so while I have the jack out I'll look underneath to see what type of damage was done. I did notice that the seam at the bottom of the bed looks like it folded in a little causing a v-shaped pucker. It does appear that the door actually buckled although I don't know if that means the b-pillar itself was damaged. At the top of the door on the hinge side the weather stripping is now sticking out over the passenger side front door.

I'll try to take some more photos tomorrow, but if any of that helps, let me know. Apparently, NC has a 75% damage rate based on what they call the Actual Cash Value which apparently is represented by its local market value. Is that correct? Is the suggested retail price the local market value?

Thanks for the help,
Mike

 

I agree with Canadianelbow except I would replace the Cab corner with a replacement panel depending on the time allowed. And as far as the Labor rates that will vary but around here it will be about 57-62 hour. Otherwise he pretty on the money with what would need to be done with looking at those pictures. Replace back door, Door skin on front w/ repair, Pull on the rocker panel and rear cab, Repair/Replace the rear cab corner and Fix bed panel.

 

I looked at it a little closer today, but unfortunately, still no better pictures.

The majority of the damage, as you can tell is obviously each door. The front fender took a little bit of damage but not much, it's probably buff-able. The frame doesn't appear to be damaged at all, and the cab doesn't look too bad with the exception that the crumple damage extends to the front of the truck about half way into the passenger side door frame.

The bed looks like it caught a little bit more damage then what the photos show. I'm thinking that it's probably a bed side replacement because the bottom of the bed has moved about a quarter to 3/8 of an inch back with a large "v" pucker at the bottom. If they do replace the side it'll require another coat of spray in bed liner.

Honestly, part of me hopes the truck does get totaled out. My fear is that even if the accident is considered minor (which I think one that leaves a person with not even a feeling of whiplash is) the truck may never be the same. With the gap in the rear door water is already coming into the cab. It hasn't rained, but I guess the morning dew or whatever is causing it to leak. Other problems always seem to come up some months after. Maybe I'm just worrying.

Thanks again!
Mike

 

I think your over thinking it, I do not see this being a total loss. As a claims adjuster i have seen plenty of these. The value of this truck will exceed the cost of repairs by alot. Once the repairs are done you would never know it was in an accident. As far as the bed side, if they do not repair it they will probably replace the bottom half of that side. No need to touch the spray in liner. Your looking at prob. 5-6 in damages and your vehicle is easily over 8000. As far as future problems or loss of value, I don't see any of those either. Repairs these days are not the same as they were 10-20 years ago. Get an estimate and see what the Ins. company says but I think you will be fine. Very minor damage in this loss.

 

Well, that's good to hear. I'm hoping that monday I'll be able to get it in to someone to have them look at it. Once I hear something I'll post back up and let you all know.

Thanks so much for everyone's help!
Mike

 

Update:

Alright, I have an update for everyone. So on Wednesday the insurance adjuster came out and did her inspection of the vehicle. Her estimate put the damage at $3,600.00. Apparently, she's putting on used doors... for a heritage edition which mine isn't. After talking to you guys the estimate seemed a little off so I took it to two different body shops. Both of them came up with estimates of just around $6,400. The one guy couldn't find "comparable" doors and so put in Ford doors in the estimate. The shell's are like $1,600 a shot. He said he thought that finding salavage yard doors wouldn't be that far off on the price given the fact that they'd come with glass, etc.

As more info comes in I'll post it.

Thanks all,
Mike

 

I'd be sure to have the window regulators checked out in a set of used doors.

 

Insurance estimates usually start out a little low. Some insurance companies have the adjuster write the initial estimate low because they know the vehicle is going to go to a shop and the shop is going to call in a supplement for additional work. That way if the person just takes the money and doesnt get it fixed the insurance company didnt have to pay out the extra money for the things they "missed" or couldnt see at the time.

Normally used doors are not cost effective unless you need other components in that door such as glass, regulator and trim panel. I agree with Canadian as far as repairing the cab corner. If you replace it they will want to section it which means cutting and splicing. The cab corner doesnt seem to be tore or deformed too much. A good body man can work that metal back out. That way you retain the original panel.

Dang you guys are gettin some good rates where you are at. Down here we typically get $40/hr for Sheetmetal $40/hr for Refinish and $26/hr for Paint & Materials

 

Well from an Ins. stand point they both are correct. We generally try to find replacement/recycled parts before going to aftermarket and last to OEM. As far as the Ins. adjuster writing a low estimate is not correct. They write an estimate the same as a body shop except we do what I stated earlier and shops generally go straight to aftermarket or OEM. It would be easy to tell you if the adjuster estimate is in the ballpark if you could scan a copy of it for us. What rates are they using? Ins. company hate supplements. Keep us updated on how this pans out. Generally for us almost every shop agrees with our adjusters estimates so that has to show you they are generally close. Body shops always write estimates high because they think your coming off the street and pay with your own money. Thats how they make money.

 

Mike, I have never been a fan of used doors, either as a tech, or as a consumer. You have no idea what you are getting, how many times those parts have been repaired, or recycled even, or if it has been previously bondo'd up, or any number of what if's. Given its year, there is nothing to say the bottom door edge isn't ready to show rust, if it hasn't already. I would fight the ins. company tooth and nail. Your ins company isn't even paying this bill, the other party's ins. company is. With used doors, the labor rate is always lower, as they tend to deduct time because the door guts don't have to be changed over, or even if the ins company does pay full change over rates, the tech could very well take any and all short cuts. I would insist on Factory ford parts, new OEM.

I have met alot of insurance adjusters over the years, some are cheap, some are fair, the odd one is even generous, but they are few and far between. I'd say your "lady" is considerably far off base. What are the times for repair/replace on the panels she is allowing? More importantly, what is she missing? They almost always miss something. If it's a small thing often the shop will just absorb the costs, but there is never a job over $2000 that I can't start pointing out missed items or time allowances. Repair times are always just a guess, and unless an adjuster has spent time on the bench, what they learn in estimating school isn't always practical in real life.

Insurance companies cheap out, and string both the shop and consumer along, to keep every penny in their shareholders pocket. Insurance is a business, BIG business, and they are greedy. Smart business principal I guess. Take more than what is fair from the general public, because they can, pay as little out as humanly possible, and pay their execs gross amounts of money, but still turn a massive profit. Fight em. Win one for the little guy.

 

I'll look into seeing if I can scan my estimates tonight to the page so everyone can see them. I'll probably just end up typing them in because it was a 30 minute ordeal trying to figure out how to upload those photos of the damage.

As far as the cab corner is concerned both the shops I went to said that they would be required to section it out and install a new one. A third shop I took it to (that wouldn't provide an estimate because the insurance company already looked at it) also said they'd section it out but they were talking lower in the door. The second body shop expressed the concerns canadianelbow had with the replacement of the cab corner and said that they'd have to coat the inside of any replacement panel to prevent rust in the cab corner. Both shops and the adjuster agreed that the b-pillar would need to be pulled back into place. As far as the doors are concerned apparently in NC the insurance company can get away with using salvage doors and the person undergoing the repairs can only blip out if their willing to pay the difference between the salvage door and the new door. While the person doing the estimate was working on the truck the owner at the second shop came and talked to me. He was a really interesting guy and was proud to show me the work his shop was doing. He also showed me a door that an adjuster brought over to have them install. It was hailed. He said he'd been going around with the adjuster for a bit about how the door was not satisfactory and it wouldn't be going on a car he worked on. Maybe it was a show, maybe not, but I was impressed. Both shops said they'd work with me on the driver's side because two months ago a guy turned into that side of the truck. The damage on that one appeared to only be cosmetic with the exception of the bed corner which is a mirror image of the damage on the passenger side.

Meanwhile, I'm now 5 days in on a rental car that I can't wait to give back.

I'll post the estimates later.

Thanks again for all the insight!
Mike

 

I will say that if I am writing a walkin estimate I will usually quote for oem parts first and formost. Most of the time that is what people want anyway. I do, however, ask if the customer would like me to quote used, A/M, or Reconditioned parts to save money. Used parts can be a major PITA. Especially for the reasons as stated by Canadian. I would say at least 3/4 of the time when we get a used sheetmetal part we have to bargin for clean up time on that panel. That means that we have to repair that panel before it goes on the vehicle.

Now im not saying every insurance company/adjuster is out to low ball or screw the customer. Just like not every shop is out there to be dishonest and squeeze every dollar out of a claim. What I can say is that in some cases adjusters are taught/instructed to keep the initial estiamte on the low side. I can say this from personal experience. I write for many insurance companies as our shop is on a DRP (direct repair program) with them. I have been told in no uncertain terms to write for repair of a panel, even if it will need to be replaced and let the shop that performs the repair supplement for the replacement of the panel. Now if the vehicle is going to be staying at the shop for repair then they defintiely want as complete of an estiamte as possible. In fact, for one isurance company i write for they want my initial estiamte to be %95 accurate.

 

I have to agree, Our rule of thumb is 5 MY or newer we go with OEM parts and anything older then that we generally go with recycled parts. We try our best to get perfect parts but cannot guarantee that will be the case. There are companies out there that try to low ball it and some that pay way more then they are supposed to. I feel my company is right in the middle somewhere. Generally we tell shops to repair panels as it is always better to keep to original panel on the vehicle. I do feel this adjuster is low balling it but then again she is using a recycled part. What INS. is it if you don't mind me asking. I can prob. help you a bit dealing with them as I prob. already have on other claims. Can't wait to see what the estimate says. We got a couple experienced people here to help you so at least you will know you will get a good repair. Couple from shops and another from an Ins. company. Can't beat that.