Hello all..

All this talk is starting to worry me.. This same type of thing happend on the Grand National mailing list some time back.. in the end all it did was pi$$ people off and make it harder to find out info on the car..

If we all had Mustangs or F-Bodies we would have nothing to worry about.. but with trucks as rare as ours.. we really need to be careful.. A board like this is worth it's weight in gold.. I support and agree with anything that will keep it up and running..

------------------
Got Boost ?
1999 SVT Lightning

 

SGT A,

I'm sorry for the post above. Things have been really bad at "real" work and my passion just got the best of me. Again, I apologize. I did not mean to attack you personally.

Steve

 

This is getting counter productive. I would thank Steve for his acceptance of Sal's input knowing it is a risk he runs as far as recouping his investment of time and money. I think we all can see his point\perspective.

We all know Sal's info and gear is first rate.
As a matter of fact we all should realize that everyone recommends Sal to anyone that is looking for specific parts info related to Lightning.
I know Steve and Sal each are in business to make a profit.
You know what parts\products each offer and from my understanding only the headers may be in competition. Granted Seve may add lines of prducts that compete with, say Sal's.
I wouldn't wish to advise either on how to do business. I know it is a pain. Steve is a gracious host trying hard to accomodate individuals who think mainly of themselves when it comes to the almighty buck. Saving one that is. Or maybe I just think like this. Anyhow I would hope an amicable resolution to this touchy situation is eminent.
Sal thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Steve thanks again for your patients and consideration.

------------------
Red 99 Lightning #812 4/30/99 (Totaled)
Black 99 Lightning #1542
5/25/99
White 88 SVO Merkur Xr4ti
Sand Gold 88 Xr4ti
Silver 95 SHO
Black 2000 Integra Type R #758 adopted

 

Steve,

I was only trying to say that Sal's input, regardless of profit margin or not, is invaluable. You and Sal have spoken about this, and ultimately it is up to you two (or Sal if he would choose to advertise), but I think the general idea is that we (or at least, I) would like Sal to have more freedom in his responses. I personally have not purchased one thing from Sal. I may be one of the only ones on here. I do however look forward to his input on any posts, and he is hesitant to respond for fear of negative vibes. Bottom line is that this is your board, and of course you pay the bills. It's also a community of "cyber friends" and we all should have the same freedoms....

------------------
DEVILDOG

 

Steve,

Apology accepted... We all really do appreciate your hard work on here...




------------------
DEVILDOG

 

SGT A,

I agree with you, but once the line is crossed from "community" (general discussion about a topic) to "business" (discussion to sell or promote a product) then someone has to pay. I refuse to pay out of my pocket so someone else can make a profit. Period.

Steve

 

Steve...

Don`t take this wrong friend...

But paying out of pocket is just what you are wanting to happen here with respect to folks using this board. You took the initiative to start this site for the purpose of ....Main Entry: 1com·merce
Pronunciation: 'kä-(")m&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin commercium, from com- + merc-, merx merchandise
Date: 1537
1 : social intercourse : interchange of ideas, opinions, or sentiments
2 : the exchange or buying and selling of commodities on a large scale involving transportation from place to place.
I`m not trying to be assine. I plan to buy some JBA's from you. I feel like I risk expulsion just by expressing my opinion Now.
I also post on the NLOC as The Darkness`.I have many interests that I spend money on. I don`t think they inhibit the chance of my purchasing from you.

Jeff C.



------------------
Red 99 Lightning #812 4/30/99 (Totaled)
Black 99 Lightning #1542
5/25/99
White 88 SVO Merkur Xr4ti
Sand Gold 88 Xr4ti
Silver 95 SHO
Black 2000 Integra Type R #758 adopted

 

Twisted99,

<on soapbox>

Everyone's opinion is valuable and I certainly will not "bounce" you for expressing one, so don't be afraid to express your's!

Please let me explain something, though to put this all in perspective.

F-150 Online was not started for commerce/commercial/profit motivation purposes.

I started this site in late-1996, to fill a void on the web for information on the "new" F-150 and to prove to myself that I could build something better than the crap that was out there. It additionally became an online resume for me when I decided to change careers from sales to web design sometime in 1997.

Keep in mind that there have been many users of this site long before these message boards were ever installed (January 1999?) utilizing the email discussion list and other resources. The message boards have served to bump page views and monthly costs.

Advertisers like Dunlop Tire and ARE helped to pay the bills along the way (as well as window sticker sales) but profit was a word that was not in my vocabulary as far as this site is concerned. It was more or less break-even or losing money, just ask my wife.

When Roger approached me to sell items online, I thought it was a great idea. Sales have been good, I will not lie, but the money that has realistically come back to the site would barely cover a single month of hosting costs. It has been a good "e-commerce" experience with which to pad the online resume as well.

Now, with the site growing at an astronomical rate (relatively speaking), I need to look to other revenue sources, because I do not want to spend my own money to keep this going (nor would my wife approve). A couple of the more visible vendors are helping out. The (somewhat) annoying banner ads you see at the top of the page bring in a few hundred bucks a month. I flat-out refuse to charge for content, so don't suggest it.

My monthly expenses (not including the time I put in) still exceed $1000 per month. I have to start looking at this site as a commercial venture, though it may have never been intended as such. Remember that more than 50% of what I take in goes right back to the government.

The logical place to look is the "low lying fruit," people that are making money from their presence here. The true business men with respect for the time I have put in have chosen to give back. I don't think I am asking a lot here for $300 - $500 ($150 - $300 after taxes).

If in the end the Lightning owners choose to go elsewhere, that is something I will have to unfortunately deal with. It would be sad, but I guess it is the ultimate cost of "doing business."

<off soapbox>

Steve

 

And I thought all this damn snow was depressing...
CA

------------------
Christy Ann
99WhiteLightningSVTGirl
RookzRook@aol.com
WhiteLightninSVT@aol.com
Have you ever seen an Angel riding a Lightning bolt~
1999.5 White *Fastest Color* SVT Lightning
PSP Air Filter Kit
3568 out of 4000, August 13, 1999
763 out of 866 white
NLOC #398
GirlSpeedRacing Denver Chapter
Denver Rec Truck Tags *I8URCHV*

 

I'm so confused by all of this talk about how much it cost to run a web page, am I missing something here?

I can create this exact forum in about 2 hours and let people post what they want!

Will I create a profit no, but we are here to learn from other Lightning friends.

If I saw one of my Lightning brothers broken down on the side of the road, it would become fist to cuffs if he would not accept my own tire that I just pulled off my own Lightning.

We are first brothers let Sal post and then Sal will advertise, what is the problem here?

Web admen, make the first move, we want you and Sal please. The two combined are greater than the sum!

 

Well, here is my two cents worth....I, like alot of you began exploring the web looking for Lightning sites only after I bought mine in June of 1999. I was posting to other Ford sites before that date when I owned my Cobra. One of the sites I really enjoyed visiting was the jsmartin board which still exists for all SVT owners. I met and chatted with many of you long before I knew of the F-150 on-line board. I still visit over there, as well as here, even though I don't currently own an SVT product. (although I really do like that silver Lightning.....)

Anyway, I would like to take the time to thank our host for this forum, which he provides free to us all. Every time I sign on here, I learn something new about Lightnings, and many other things too. I have also purchased products from some of the vendors, and some who are not.....And I think we all know who we/you are. The point is this board is not mine, but I really do enjoy visiting here. I also think the reason this board runs so well is due to Steve's efforts to "police it" and keep us all on the straight and narrow, so to speak.

I, for one would really miss this corner of the web, and hope we can all support Steve's efforts to run it, as well at the same time support those members who have things we want/need.......But let's do it the right way, not on Steve's nickel.

Now, with that all said, I for one am still waiting for Sal to break into the 12's and prove to the world that Ford did indeed get it right this time, and that he is one hell of a Lightning Tuner.

------------------
Mark Swaim
1999 Lightning (sold)
1997 Cobra (deceased)
1993 Cadillac Allante

 

Steve, if you really pay $1000/month for this site, you're being taken to the cleaners. There are lots of cost-effective alternatives.

If you are hosting F-150 Online for altruistic reasons, there are alternatives that you might want to explore.
If you were to get rid of the banner ads and make Roger run the storefront under a different domain name, I could provide you with a dedicated server for $0 month. Fun, huh?

Nathan

<begin commercial plug>
I see from a traceroute that you are being hosted with Digital Nation. Assuming you use 100GB of bandwidth per month, you could get a server for under $500 a month by switching to Rackspace.com

We offer server setup in as little as one hour and have pricing plans for our dedicated servers starting at under $250 per month. Check out our web site and try our online pricing tool to configure you dream server today! http://www.rackspace.com

<end commercial plug>

[This message has been edited by Nathan (edited 03-21-2000).]

 

I've got an idea. Why does'nt Steve's store become the distributor for Sal's product line? Since F150 online is the only real internet site for Lightning owners and soon to be Lightning owners like myself, it would be the logical choice. Sal does not really have the time to work his regular job, manufacture custom Lightning parts, do research and development, post great info for this sight, ...and market his products. This would be an opportunity for both parties to benefit. I think the membership would agree with me??? Part of what motivates people like us to buy Lightnings is their modification potential. I have a 98 LS1 that frankly, I am done with. I put $8000 into the car, did suspension, wheels, hood, intake, full exhaust, and found out the transmission, clutch and rear end could not handle any more power. The aftermarket could not provide me the appropriate upgrades, and the pricing was getting prohibitive. I ordered a Lightning because we have a great platform to build on. There is a great thrill in having a very fast daily driver. Unfortunately, with such a small quantity of these vehicles being made, we have such limited resources for performance information. Let's not cut it off. You guys need to work something out.

------------------
Paul
2000BlkLightning on order
98RamAirTransAm (for sale when Lightning Arrives)
98Expedition
99VictoryV92C
99ATK605E

 

Nathan, thanks for the info. I did my due diligence and looked into Rackspace.com when I was looking for a dedicated server (f150online.com outgrew three different virtual hosts) and your prices and setup charges were *far* higher than digitalnation's and the customer service I received when making inquiries were handled in an embarrasing manner.

As far as bandwidth goes, the site DOES exceed 50GB per month now and will probably exceed 100GB by the summer and occupies over 2.5GB of disk. The box runs a PII500 with 512MB of RAM. What's your actual price for that? According to your employer, about $750 per month?

Please do not question my business acumen or my knowledge when it come to operating a web site. As far as your offer of $0 per month, I have found out as a web site operator for over three years that you get what you pay for in this industry. If your purpose for posting is to support Sal and his endeavors, try finding a more relevant way of doing it.

Steve

 

I don't comment often, and I probably should avoid this , but I will not leave without first saying how "uncomfortable" I have become since the "enforcement" of TOS has been placed on Sal. (Notice I did not talk about the "other" threads that were closed due to other individuals advertising.)

The other individuals who were advertising & had their threads closed were not providing instruction/guidance on any other product beyond their own. They were also not "bringing" buisness to F-150online financially. Sal "does" bring buisness to F-150online, and I will explain below:

Sal has an ability to interact, and consume us with enthusiasm, while at the same time helping us to make purchases for our Lightnings. This includes "Roger". If a product is bought from "Roger", then Sal is just as helpful with these products as well as his own, and many of the Lightning owners don't even hesitate to make a purchase when they "know" someone like Sal is available.

If someone like Sal, Wyldman, Bill Murrey etc.. did not come here, and they never provide their opinion, knowledge, and enthusiasm, then members would be less likely to do modifications, and purchase products from many vendors, including Roger.


I understand the reasoning that Steve has presented, and the TOS Disclaimer clearly states that as the obvious, but being that I am very (idealistic) I think that Sal probably makes F-150online more money by being here to answer questions, then if he was not here. I explained above that his ability to "guide" members through different modifications comes in handy for "all" products & not just his own. The Online store has made more money because of this.

I also think Sal "should" consider possibly paying an advertisment fee. I don't see $300 being very bad, but seeing the information that I have presented above; you may find that taking $150 would be more then agreeable, and the fact that it will also end this "annoying" & discomforting stalemate sure would be nice. A compromise "is" necessary under this circumstance, and those are the "facts".

The "Lightning forum @ F150online is a family no matter what anyone says, and when money comes between us, then I think making sacrifices with the most "benificial" outcome in mind is necessary.

If a compromise can not be made under this particular circumstance, then both individuals are either being "obstinant" or just blatantly stubborn.

After providing the information that I have above, then I will be thoroughly dissappointed in both parties if this impasse can not be breached.

The Lightning forum generates a lot of enthusiasm, but again it would not benifit anyone without die hard, knowledgeable; risktaking tuners like Sal.

It might also be benificial for Roger, Sal, & Steve to consider a consultation arrangement to completely overcome this situation. I'll leave good enough alone after all this talk.

My 0.2 cents!



[This message has been edited by Metallic Blue (edited 03-21-2000).]