Hungry for more valvespring info: Read this!
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Originally Posted by Jim@JDM
Charles,
That top fuel valve spring they only use for 1 run. Prostock cars change their springs every 3 runs. Im right in the middle of purchasing an ultrasonic cleaning machine right now there is only a few of them in the country, Warren Johnson has one of the first ones produced. The sales guy actually calld Warren from my shop and I got to speak to him. Not only about the machine but we got into the conversation about Mikronite coating. He told me that with their valve springs they get 3 times the life out of them with the mikronite. We have taken a set of our springs, Mikronited them, used them in Vinnies truck. There is 30 low to mid 10 sec passes and some street miles on them, Vinnies comming in next week to get his 4V. The first thing Ill be doing is testing his spring pressure on the Mikronite springs.
Jim@JDM
Cryogenics is another treatment that can be applied to valve springs that can increase their strength 10%-15% while increasing longevity by as much as 100%. My son lives in Indianapolis and there is a company a few miles from his home (his neighbor is the owner) that cryogenically treats race engine parts, if you are interested I’d be happy to give you their contact info. Since it is very difficult with the geometry available to design a spring strong enough perhaps cryogenic treated springs might be part of the solution.
Charles
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From: Auburn Wa
Originally Posted by Magnum Powers
That is very interesting Jim, most people think of Mikronite as a friction reduction coating which it is not. The Mikronite treatment polishes the surface with organic abrasives under huge pressures. A failure mechanism valve springs encounter is caused by surface roughness that creates stress fractures. The Mikronite polishing process must reduce those fractures.
Cryogenics is another treatment that can be applied to valve springs that can increase their strength 10%-15% while increasing longevity by as much as 100%. My son lives in Indianapolis and there is a company a few miles from his home (his neighbor is the owner) that cryogenically treats race engine parts, if you are interested I’d be happy to give you their contact info. Since it is very difficult with the geometry available to design a spring strong enough perhaps cryogenic treated springs might be part of the solution.
Charles
Cryogenics is another treatment that can be applied to valve springs that can increase their strength 10%-15% while increasing longevity by as much as 100%. My son lives in Indianapolis and there is a company a few miles from his home (his neighbor is the owner) that cryogenically treats race engine parts, if you are interested I’d be happy to give you their contact info. Since it is very difficult with the geometry available to design a spring strong enough perhaps cryogenic treated springs might be part of the solution.
Charles
Mikronite = polished surface
Both of these treatments would have there place on a valvespring. Micronite would be best on a multiple interference fit spring setup.
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Originally Posted by Bad as L
Micronite = friction reduction
Mikronite = polished surface
Both of these treatments would have there place on a valvespring. Micronite would be best on a multiple interference fit spring setup.
Mikronite = polished surface
Both of these treatments would have there place on a valvespring. Micronite would be best on a multiple interference fit spring setup.
Charles
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Joined: May 2002
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From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
Originally Posted by Magnum Powers
That is very interesting Jim, most people think of Mikronite as a friction reduction coating which it is not. . . .
"What Mikronite® is NOT
Mikronite® is solely a mechanical action process. It is not a coating, and it does not involve an active heat process nor caustic chemicals of any kind."
So I know what it's not, but damned if I can figure out what it is. Sounds a little like microscopic shot peening.
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Originally Posted by Jim@JDM
Prostock cars change their springs every 3 runs. Im right in the middle of purchasing an ultrasonic cleaning machine right now there is only a few of them in the country, Warren Johnson has one of the first ones produced. The sales guy actually calld Warren from my shop and I got to speak to him. Not only about the machine but we got into the conversation about Mikronite coating. He told me that with their valve springs they get 3 times the life out of them with the mikronite. We have taken a set of our springs, Mikronited them, used them in Vinnies truck. There is 30 low to mid 10 sec passes and some street miles on them, Vinnies comming in next week to get his 4V. The first thing Ill be doing is testing his spring pressure on the Mikronite springs.
Jim@JDM
Jim@JDM
then you move on to and state bs about prostock apps and how they change springs every three runs, they dont they check valve lash every run and adjust it, if they need to replace a spring, guess what bud they change the freakin motor out.
next you move onto ultrasonic cleaners and you say there are only a few of them in the county. tell you what everyone call this number and ask for chris k, he will tell you that he has sold 13 of them last month alone and that he has sold 50+ last year.. 443-790-3853. they have been out for years dumbass.
most of you are morons for believing everything that comes out of nj. try checking out information for yourself or god forbid you pick up a book and read about something that your going to spend your hard earned money on. of course the dyno numbers will show an increase if you buy the new springs and have them installed by jdm because you will be on their dyno and they can manipulate that anyway they see fit and make you happy but whene you take it to the track and dont see an improvement who you gonna cry to? You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed.
warren johnson would kick you *** for mentioning him jim.
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From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
Originally Posted by Bad as L
Micronite = friction reduction
Mikronite = polished surface
Both of these treatments would have there place on a valvespring. Micronite would be best on a multiple interference fit spring setup.
Mikronite = polished surface
Both of these treatments would have there place on a valvespring. Micronite would be best on a multiple interference fit spring setup.
"What is micronite Coating?
The micronite-coating is constructed by introducing a large-molecular material with an extremely low friction coefficient into some hard PVD-coating material such as TiN or DLC. In addition to the normal procedure for the PVD-coating, this special combined micronite-coating has to be treated with two independent surface processes. The innovative steps in the actual newly developed micronite-coating are thus twofold, namely: i) micro-mechanical procedure to allow for the introduction of the large-molecular low friction material into the hard PVD-coating and ii) special surface treatment procedure of the modified PVD-coating which involves a chemical process to occur giving rise to an even harder surface structure. In this way, an essentially harder coating with a pronounced lower friction coefficient than the original PVD-coating is obtained."
Whew. Much easier to understand than Mikronite.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Jacksonville, FL
Originally Posted by adrenalinowner
what i love about reading you post jim is how deep you dig the hole. first you try and tell everyone that you need to run big *** valve springs to make more power because of valve float. valve float doesnt happen in ohc vehicles, valve bind does and just becuase your parter in crime thats trying to sell blowers agrees with you doesnt mean its true. you need to stop snowballing everyone into thinking that valvesprings are going to gain them hp in stock or even mildly boosted trucks.
then you move on to and state bs about prostock apps and how they change springs every three runs, they dont they check valve lash every run and adjust it, if they need to replace a spring, guess what bud they change the freakin motor out.
next you move onto ultrasonic cleaners and you say there are only a few of them in the county. tell you what everyone call this number and ask for chris k, he will tell you that he has sold 13 of them last month alone and that he has sold 50+ last year.. 443-790-3853. they have been out for years dumbass.
most of you are morons for believing everything that comes out of nj. try checking out information for yourself or god forbid you pick up a book and read about something that your going to spend your hard earned money on. of course the dyno numbers will show an increase if you buy the new springs and have them installed by jdm because you will be on their dyno and they can manipulate that anyway they see fit and make you happy but whene you take it to the track and dont see an improvement who you gonna cry to? You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed.
warren johnson would kick you *** for mentioning him jim.
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then you move on to and state bs about prostock apps and how they change springs every three runs, they dont they check valve lash every run and adjust it, if they need to replace a spring, guess what bud they change the freakin motor out.
next you move onto ultrasonic cleaners and you say there are only a few of them in the county. tell you what everyone call this number and ask for chris k, he will tell you that he has sold 13 of them last month alone and that he has sold 50+ last year.. 443-790-3853. they have been out for years dumbass.
most of you are morons for believing everything that comes out of nj. try checking out information for yourself or god forbid you pick up a book and read about something that your going to spend your hard earned money on. of course the dyno numbers will show an increase if you buy the new springs and have them installed by jdm because you will be on their dyno and they can manipulate that anyway they see fit and make you happy but whene you take it to the track and dont see an improvement who you gonna cry to? You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed.
warren johnson would kick you *** for mentioning him jim.
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Im not a JDM cheerleader, my truck is pretty much stock I have no vendor preference. AMOF, I have never purchased anything from "the big three". I find this thread very informative and here you come and take a $h!t on it.
Whoever you are GROW THE FU(K UP!!
Last edited by netoje; Jan 9, 2006 at 11:06 PM.
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From: DETROIT, (formerly Eaton County, Michigan)
Originally Posted by adrenalinowner
what i love about reading you post jim is how deep you dig the hole. first you try and tell everyone that you need to run big *** valve springs to make more power because of valve float. valve float doesnt happen in ohc vehicles, valve bind does and just becuase your parter in crime thats trying to sell blowers agrees with you doesnt mean its true. you need to stop snowballing everyone into thinking that valvesprings are going to gain them hp in stock or even mildly boosted trucks.
then you move on to and state bs about prostock apps and how they change springs every three runs, they dont they check valve lash every run and adjust it, if they need to replace a spring, guess what bud they change the freakin motor out.
next you move onto ultrasonic cleaners and you say there are only a few of them in the county. tell you what everyone call this number and ask for chris k, he will tell you that he has sold 13 of them last month alone and that he has sold 50+ last year.. 443-790-3853. they have been out for years dumbass.
most of you are morons for believing everything that comes out of nj. try checking out information for yourself or god forbid you pick up a book and read about something that your going to spend your hard earned money on. of course the dyno numbers will show an increase if you buy the new springs and have them installed by jdm because you will be on their dyno and they can manipulate that anyway they see fit and make you happy but whene you take it to the track and dont see an improvement who you gonna cry to? You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed.
warren johnson would kick you *** for mentioning him jim.
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then you move on to and state bs about prostock apps and how they change springs every three runs, they dont they check valve lash every run and adjust it, if they need to replace a spring, guess what bud they change the freakin motor out.
next you move onto ultrasonic cleaners and you say there are only a few of them in the county. tell you what everyone call this number and ask for chris k, he will tell you that he has sold 13 of them last month alone and that he has sold 50+ last year.. 443-790-3853. they have been out for years dumbass.
most of you are morons for believing everything that comes out of nj. try checking out information for yourself or god forbid you pick up a book and read about something that your going to spend your hard earned money on. of course the dyno numbers will show an increase if you buy the new springs and have them installed by jdm because you will be on their dyno and they can manipulate that anyway they see fit and make you happy but whene you take it to the track and dont see an improvement who you gonna cry to? You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed.
warren johnson would kick you *** for mentioning him jim.
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From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
Originally Posted by adrenalinowner
. . . try checking out information for yourself . . .
From Crane Cams: "Valve Float” (too little spring pressure in this case) or “Coil Bind” (coils are actually smashing together).
Google has exactly 70 hits for "valve bind." From that, I can conclude with scientific certainty that you are FOS. Hell, even misspelled words will get thousands of hits.
Look for yourself. "You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed."
Last edited by Tim Skelton; Jan 9, 2006 at 11:15 PM.
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From: DETROIT, (formerly Eaton County, Michigan)
Originally Posted by Tim Skelton
Okay. Just did some checking there, Einstein.
From Crane Cams: "Valve Float” (too little spring pressure in this case) or “Coil Bind” (coils are actually smashing together).
Google has exactly 70 hits for "valve bind." From that, I can conclude with scientific certainty that you are FOS. Hell, even misspelled words will get thousands of hits.
Look for yourself. "You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed."
From Crane Cams: "Valve Float” (too little spring pressure in this case) or “Coil Bind” (coils are actually smashing together).
Google has exactly 70 hits for "valve bind." From that, I can conclude with scientific certainty that you are FOS. Hell, even misspelled words will get thousands of hits.
Look for yourself. "You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed."
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From: Auburn Wa
Originally Posted by Tim Skelton
Okay. Just did some checking there, Einstein.
From Crane Cams: "Valve Float” (too little spring pressure in this case) or “Coil Bind” (coils are actually smashing together).
Google has exactly 70 hits for "valve bind." From that, I can conclude with scientific certainty that you are FOS. Hell, even misspelled words will get thousands of hits.
Look for yourself. "You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed."
From Crane Cams: "Valve Float” (too little spring pressure in this case) or “Coil Bind” (coils are actually smashing together).
Google has exactly 70 hits for "valve bind." From that, I can conclude with scientific certainty that you are FOS. Hell, even misspelled words will get thousands of hits.
Look for yourself. "You wont becuaese you will be ot imbarrrassed."
an OHC engine experiences all the same problems (and then some) that a pushrod motor experiences....cept without the pushrods. I know, I know....hard to believe
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From: McDonough, GA
After speaking with the guys building my engine today it was agreed that more spring force will help. It was not agreed that valve float is a problem on mod motors, even 4.6's running up to 9600 rpm. I don't believe everything I read or everything I'm told unless I can see it with my eyes or have a credible source tell me so. It would seem that along with spring pressure and inertia of the valve that cam lobe profile would be just as important. A more aggresive profile would aide in a weaker spring having a harder time following the cam on the closing side of the profile. The guys at Dixie Performance are certainly going to help me research this and use all info to help decide what will go in my heads. Is it possible that two guys schemed up this whole valve spring thing to create a new buzz in the L world? Possibly. Until some more numbers are published along with some unbiased accounts I will remain skeptical. After much reflection I too find it odd that this topic comes up now after these motors have been around for so long and have not heard or read anywhere else about the springs being an issue. The 90-100# springs are pretty much the norm from what the distributor at Pro Power told us on the phone today. The saga continues....
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From: Plymouth, MI
Originally Posted by adrenalinowner
valve float doesnt happen in ohc vehicles...
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