My .02 on a couple of items here.
In regards to DFI I do agree with "FMOS Racing" is it dificult to adapt maybe but it can be done. Yes you did site the obstacles.Can they be overcome, think about this: Use Fel-Pro DFI inplace of EEC also get rid of coil on plug, use coil packs such as Mustang 4.6 (now you can run a hotter iginition (MSD) ). To control transmission function use Karl Baumann's "Baummannator" I am sorry I don't care about cruise control so I won't even address that item. As for other items Cats, Airmeters and some of the ancilary sensors bye bye who needs them. Now will this work - I don't know? But I have mentioned it to some EEC/DFI guru's and it may have a chance. What issues lay ahead packaging and that is assuming that it will work. As for air cleaners adding PSI no they don't but you can free up a restriction and see the boost go up. That is why they sell the Anderson power pipe, K&N filter, Sal's etc.. Just like if you free up the other end the boost will go down. Did you ever have DIARRHEA!!!
PS I did not write this just to write. I am in the process to do this if I can prove it out. I have a lot of design modifications in store for my truck and I am trying to complete them for the Detroit Autorama Custom Car Show. One other Item that I faild to mention these trucks have a system known as PATS -passive anti theift- scrap that too yes it will be a lot of work. hey! thats what life is about.------------------
BABolt
SVT#290



[This message has been edited by BABolt (edited 01-01-2000).]

 

BABolt and Tyhpoon - The air cleaner is on the atmospheric side of the blower and has no impact on the boost produced on the other side. Anderson Power Pipes are on the boosted side of the blower. Any reduction in restriction on this side will result in an increase in boost pressure. All a change in air cleaner does (hopefully) is reduce the inlet restriction (i.e. power loss due to the air cleaner). The factory air box has about a 5% power loss. A 40% reduction in inlet restriction will yield only a 2% reduction in power loss, or about 6-7 horsepower on a Lightning. The only way to get more boost out of an Eaton Supercharger is to install a less restrictive intercooler or spin the blower faster. It is like drinking water out of your garden hose, no problem. But now try to take that same drink out of a fire hose! You have reduced the inlet restriction in the hose, but you are still trying to force it down the same orifice. Only so much water is going to flow!

The increased boost that people are seeing with air cleaner changes are all in their heads!

------------------
HotRodSix
'98 STX Flairside 4.2L
Best 1/4: 16.26 sec. @ 84.4 mph
Dyno: 180 rwhp / 228 ft-lb

 

huh? I'm lost fellas.

 

YUP, THAT RIGHT

------------------
1999.5 LIGHTNING
WHITE #3700
DOB:8/99
CD CHANGER
TOWING PKG
TONNEAU CONER {FACT.}
STOCK
13.88ET
98.86MPH
NE DRAGWAY N.H.
SOON TO HAVE A SUPERCHIP AND FILTER HOPE TO RUN 13.49 THEN I WILL LEAVE IT ALONE

98 YAMAHA BLASTER
97 HONDA 600F3 WHT/BLK
99 VW BUG GREEN
TAYMIA SVT LIGHTNING
WHITE R/C TRUCK
BBURAGO WHITE 1/18
(painted) LIGHTNING

USED CAR DEALER
SELF EMPLOYED
RAYMOND MACE
N.H.

 

I would normally agree with you Six if our supercharger were like a Vortec or Paxton that actually compress the air within their casings, but our SC's are actually just air movers.

The Eaton is a positive displacement pump that increases air pressure and density in the intake manifold. It does so by pumping more air than the engine would use without a supercharger. The less air that the supercharger has available to move, the less it can "Stack" inside the intake, so less boost pressure is seen.

Some of the people who have seen boost increases have actually used REAL calibrated gauges, not the factory POS that comes from the factory.

[This message has been edited by Typhoon (edited 01-01-2000).]

 

I would have to agree! The Roots Type Eaton 112 basically functions like a rotating door in a restraunt.

 

Please everyone !

 

I was going to post exactly what Typhoon said but he beat me to it.

The restriction in our systems is actually the rubber fitting between the air box and the fender well. You could simply cut extra holes in the bottom of the existing air box and probably increase available air to the SC but there are other factors to consider like water getting into the system, the cfm capacity of the paper filter and the totally no laminar flow that this would create.

A better example of the way positive displacement SCs work is what happened to my engine builder on a dyno run. He had a 572 ci motor running a 14-71 blower with dual carbs set up on the dyno. He wanted to test the effects of different air cleaners on HP so he popped a 3" tall oval unit on the motor and ran it up. He was over 100 hp down @ 6000 rpm and about 2-4 lbs down on boost (depending on RPM). We also noticed the inside of the 3" filter element was starting to come apart. The SC was creating such a low pressure area in the filter that it was trying to suck the cotton right past the mesh! It wanted more air but there was no more to give. He then installed the normal 5" tall oval unit and proceded to make 960 hp and 900 ft lb of torque!

The effects of laminar flow on HP can be demonstrated by running the motor without any air cleaner. You will typically lose 10 - 20 hp running no filter since the air entering the venturi tumbles over the lip on the carb / throttle body. A well designed filter housing can smooth the flow and actually increase volume of air available to the manifold. It's not in my head, it's on the dyno sheets.

Air cleaners DO effect boost and HP.

------------------
Mark Whatman
mwhatman@worldnet.att.net

• 99.5 White Lightning (stock)
• 99 Buell S3 Thunderbolt (not stock!)
• 98 F-150 Lariat (Flowmaster)
• 96 26' Velocity Offshore Race Boat (far from stock!!!)

 

Please everyone !
Take the time to read the Post and see what the other guy has to say. I don't know if any of you have read Steven Covey but I will try to quote him just a little here "seek first to listen/understand and then to be heard". Now I will repeat myself, the air cleaner does not increase the PSI (I said that look above). But when you change out the stock aircleaner you do eliminate some of the inlet restriction and as almost eneryone who has posted here and has stated they see their boost gage climbing higher (Hey maybe it is just wishful thinking). Just remember the supercharger and the engine are nothing more than pumps, anything that you do to limit restrictions will inprove their efficiency. As for the Anderson power pipe my friend has one on his carburetted supercharged car,it is upstream of the supercharger.Also there is a power pipe that is available for the Vortech supercharged SN95 that is mounted to the inlet side of the supercharger it was designed to reduce the restriction of the stock plastic Vortech designed piece. Also one last item when there was a modification to the Kenne Bell supercharger "Blowzilla" intake manifold this was the upstream or inlet side of the supercharger. It was done to reduce restrictions. That is all that I have been talking about "Reducing Restrictions"
Well I edited my post and I have attached a photo of my friend Dominic's Vortech blown 351 powered prototype McClaren Mustang. Please note that the Anderson power pipe is on the inlet side of the supercharger.

I also have a photo of Marcus' powerpipe which mounts upstream on the SN95 Mustang Vortech application. I don't think that I need to post that too. I am done enough is enough.
------------------
BABolt
SVT#290



[This message has been edited by BABolt (edited 01-02-2000).]

 

Hey, I like this Mark guy already! LOL.

Bolt,

Mark and I weren't directing our comments toward you, they were towards Six, who said (To paraphrase) there would actually be no measurable increase in boost. Period.

 

Trying to adapt DFI to the Lightning will be very very difficult, just like on the Gen 1 trucks, unless you plan on dumping your transmission, cruise, etc. On the Lightning all of these systems are interconnected.

I run a Boost-A-Pump on my Gen 1 truck. Has been much more reliable and tunable than the standard inline fuel pump arrangement.

Later!
Jeff S.
SVT Lightning #74 in '95
http://nloc.org

 

Typhoon/Mark
I did not take your remarks to be directed at me. I think that we are on the same side of the fence. I have run blower cars for five years and have three blown vehicles. Just like everyone else here I am looking for performance gains plus I like to tinker and make things. That is why I posted what some of my plans are. I would still like some feedback either on this board or in e-mail. tell me if you think it will work or not. I would love to hear some replys.

------------------
BABolt
SVT#290

 

I haven't posted on this thread because I figure it's a poor use of money for what little if any performance gains I might receive. The reason I am posting now is to clarify that when Typhoon refered to "Six", he was not refering to me.
I personally feel that my recently installed carbon fiber dash kit will add as many horsepower as the downs pulley set-up. My $.02.

------------------
1999 Black Roush-Lowered Lightning - w/Super Chip (YEEEOW!), JBA Headers, Power Surge air kit, AAD Cobra hood, carbon fiber dash kit, CD Changer, Towing Package,Grey Rhino, clear corner lenses.



[This message has been edited by sixpipes (edited 01-02-2000).]

 

Boy, what a can of worms!

I think many on this post are confusing increased air flow with increased boost. They are not one in the same. Boost will actually do down with restriction reductions (pressure drops with less restriction to flow) but the mass air flow through the engine will increase.

------------------
HotRodSix
'98 STX Flairside 4.2L
Best 1/4: 16.26 sec. @ 84.4 mph
Dyno: 180 rwhp / 228 ft-lb

 

It sounds and looks faster. It costs me more in gas now. My foot is to the floor all the time. If I did get a pulley it would be the upper supercharger for a little over 100.00.
Scott

------------------
RED 99 LIGHTNING
Cat Back Flowmaster Muffler System Downs Ford Air Intake

[This message has been edited by SCOTTODOG (edited 01-02-2000).]