This may be the reason Ford is digging its heels in on modded engines?
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Senior Member
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From: Warner Robins, Ga, CSA
Guys, I wasn't slamming Ford. This was just a 'heads-up'.
I'm a stockbroker and believe me, I feel all the pain out there. Hopefully, Ford will overcome their problems and continue to supply us with the best, damn truck in the world
!
Dan
I'm a stockbroker and believe me, I feel all the pain out there. Hopefully, Ford will overcome their problems and continue to supply us with the best, damn truck in the world
!Dan
Senior Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,429
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From: SoCal
Re: This may be the reason Ford is digging its heels in on modded engines?
Don't believe everything you read in the tabloids children. This story is nonsense and has already been debunked by the top credit rating agencies...
and also...There was nothing wrong with the design of the Crown Vic or the Exploder. Numerous tests have showed that. No one can design a car to be impervious to every possible calamity that may strike. Yes, the gas tank can catch fire when it is rammed from behind at 80mph. Duh. It passes all of the tests it is required to as well as passing Ford specs which are far more stringent than the governments. People will sue for anything and everything in this society...you can't prevent that. Tests have shown that explorers don't spontaneously flip over when a tire blows out, it takes an extreme act of stupidity by the driver.
Just be glad you don't all have a BMW X5 (10 recalls...Interesting that you don't hear about that from the news media huh?)
and also...There was nothing wrong with the design of the Crown Vic or the Exploder. Numerous tests have showed that. No one can design a car to be impervious to every possible calamity that may strike. Yes, the gas tank can catch fire when it is rammed from behind at 80mph. Duh. It passes all of the tests it is required to as well as passing Ford specs which are far more stringent than the governments. People will sue for anything and everything in this society...you can't prevent that. Tests have shown that explorers don't spontaneously flip over when a tire blows out, it takes an extreme act of stupidity by the driver.
Just be glad you don't all have a BMW X5 (10 recalls...Interesting that you don't hear about that from the news media huh?)
Last edited by 95 Saleen S351; Mar 10, 2003 at 08:22 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,365
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From: Elkton, MD
Originally posted by Bluesky636
Depending on how many Lightnings are made, a totally STOCK one might be worth something in 30 to 40 years. Modified they are worthless in the collector market.
Depending on how many Lightnings are made, a totally STOCK one might be worth something in 30 to 40 years. Modified they are worthless in the collector market.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 105
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From: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Exactly:
I just purchased another 200 shares.
Everyone is hurting in this economy correction state. But crying is not going to get you no where.
BUY NOW.
You will be happy later, along with me.
Its the only way you will make up for the losses.
Do you really think FORD is going under.
Get real.
Take advantage of the situation.
And never wish people harm in life.
Its not the way to live.
Vince
I just purchased another 200 shares.
Everyone is hurting in this economy correction state. But crying is not going to get you no where.
BUY NOW.
You will be happy later, along with me.
Its the only way you will make up for the losses.
Do you really think FORD is going under.
Get real.
Take advantage of the situation.
And never wish people harm in life.
Its not the way to live.
Vince
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: Mi.
whitetoast11,
I'm with you. I work in Dearborn. It makes me sick to hear fellow americans wishing bad on one of the only two remaining American auto companies left.
If Ford closed it's doors it would go beyond a recession. Try 1929 all over again. Do soup lines sound good to you?
I'm not union and many of us are working long hard hours on new products to get out the door "WITH QUALITY AND PRIDE."
We are sacrificing our personal lives and getting no O/T. To do what it takes to keep the company going.
Are any of you going into work wondering if the next Friday is the day you get let go? Try working long hours with that on your mind week to week!!
I can relate completely with the saying, "That which does not kill you. Makes you stronger."
My Family name has 185 years of sweat invested in Ford starting in 1929. Uncles,dad,mother,brother and myself.
I never thought I would get on here and see others wishing for me and my co-workers to lose our jobs and livelyhood. It's beyond words. "United we Stand. Divided we Fall."
easterisland,
Sypathetic jurrys doesn't mean the car was defective.
They (the jurrors) can live with a corporation losing millions dispite the data. Put a crying mother and wife on the stand and the defense doesn't have a chance.
Some people here need to get a life when you hear them wishing misfortune on thousands of other strangers that did nothing to them. I actually feel sorry for those filled with that much bitterness. I thought I had it bad. I'll take worry over bitterness any day!!
At the core of Ford is the people who believe and we will not fail.
I'm with you. I work in Dearborn. It makes me sick to hear fellow americans wishing bad on one of the only two remaining American auto companies left.
If Ford closed it's doors it would go beyond a recession. Try 1929 all over again. Do soup lines sound good to you?
I'm not union and many of us are working long hard hours on new products to get out the door "WITH QUALITY AND PRIDE."
We are sacrificing our personal lives and getting no O/T. To do what it takes to keep the company going.
Are any of you going into work wondering if the next Friday is the day you get let go? Try working long hours with that on your mind week to week!!
I can relate completely with the saying, "That which does not kill you. Makes you stronger."
My Family name has 185 years of sweat invested in Ford starting in 1929. Uncles,dad,mother,brother and myself.
I never thought I would get on here and see others wishing for me and my co-workers to lose our jobs and livelyhood. It's beyond words. "United we Stand. Divided we Fall."
easterisland,
Sypathetic jurrys doesn't mean the car was defective.
They (the jurrors) can live with a corporation losing millions dispite the data. Put a crying mother and wife on the stand and the defense doesn't have a chance.
Some people here need to get a life when you hear them wishing misfortune on thousands of other strangers that did nothing to them. I actually feel sorry for those filled with that much bitterness. I thought I had it bad. I'll take worry over bitterness any day!!
At the core of Ford is the people who believe and we will not fail.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: Over yonder somewhere
Originally posted by L.V
BUY NOW.
You will be happy later, along with me.
Its the only way you will make up for the losses.
Do you really think FORD is going under.
Get real.
Take advantage of the situation.
BUY NOW.
You will be happy later, along with me.
Its the only way you will make up for the losses.
Do you really think FORD is going under.
Get real.
Take advantage of the situation.
Wonder what the ENRON investors thought a year before they went under?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,985
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati, OH
Originally posted by CornerCarver
Wonder what the ENRON investors thought a year before they went under?
Wonder what the ENRON investors thought a year before they went under?
The smart ones were wondering "what exactly does this company produce?"
Thor, I'm with you, I don't worry so much about gettting RIFed, but we had another layoff this week and I hate to see guys put out on the street. As to Ford going under, GET REAL. Ford's market cap may be only $11B, but if they had a fire sale on the plants, equipment, intelectual property and dealer network, that figure is around 10% of what the company is really worth. The difference between Ford and Enron is Ford actually has a company that sells products that they make money on, not a bunch of finacial models that should make money. (and don't anyone get off on me being a dumb autoworker, I actually have some education in this area) Our financials are based on how much iron goes out the door every month, and Ford just had a profitable month after extraordinary charges (the pension liabilities etc..). The auto business is cyclical, and we're in adown cycle, 2 years ago we made $7B profit, and we're selling more cars now than we were then, so don't worry about it, the industry will be fine, and Ford will do very well.The new Superduty trcuks are going real well, and al things considered, that's where we make our money.
G
Senior Member
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 912
Likes: 0
From: Ann Arbor, Michigan
From Forbes:
I wonder if he's any relation to Larry Flint...
Ford Tough
Jerry Flint, 03.10.03, 6:15 PM ET
Is Ford going bankrupt?
The story was reported this past Friday in the Daily Telegraph of London. Understand, London newspapers have been having trouble keeping readers interested since Diana died and Fergie started wearing tops.
So let's cut to the chase.
Ford Motor is not going bankrupt now or in the near future. While nothing is impossible, I rank the chance as something less than the possibility that aliens from outer space--all resembling Pamela Anderson--will land from rocket ships to seize Earth, and that Saddam Hussein will win his war against the U.S. in a mano-a-mano arm-wrestling contest with President George W. Bush.
In reporting on the ups and downs of the auto industry over 50 years, I have a few ironclad rules. And while I do not sell investment advice, one rule has been to buy General Motors at $30, DaimlerChrysler at $10 and Ford at $6 (meaning anything under $7). This isn't buy and hold forever. This is buy and sell when you have a good profit.
The rumors about a bankrupt Ford apparently started with a Feb. 28 piece in Grant's Interest Rate Observer, quoting Sean Egan, founder of one of the smaller credit-rating agencies, Egan-Jones. The Daily Telegraph's New York-based writer picked it up and ran with it last Friday.
The stories focus on the problems in Ford's auto business and Ford's huge debt.
First, the business: No one has been more critical of Ford's product programs than I have. No one. If you read Forbes.com, you know that. Ford has been slipping. There isn't enough new product. Management has seemed uncertain about what to do with Ford, Mercury and Lincoln cars. General Motors has grabbed the lead in truck (SUV) sales from Ford.
There are problems for Ford in Canada, Brazil and Western Europe as well. But none of these problems is beyond solution. The biggest question is whether the leadership is up to the job. Chairman William Clay Ford Jr. fired the previous chief executive, Jacques Nasser, and just in time. The new leaders are competent, but they aren't inspirational like Lee Iacocca or Robert Lutz. Fair enough.
The bigger issue is the market today. Sales are falling; the economy is sluggish; the stock market is sinking; we're about to march on Baghdad; and gasoline prices are pushing past $2 per gallon. None of that is good for the auto business.
Sales have run to 17 million units in recent years. But, remember, the Gulf War aftermath sank them down to 12.5 million a decade ago. If they go that low, everyone would be in trouble--but that doesn't mean bankrupt. My best guess: Sales will drop a bit from last year and end up closer to 16 million, rather than 17 million.
What the doomsayers forget is that although Ford has problems, it has strengths, too.
Its dealers in America are the best in the business. As in the past, they can carry the company when product slips.
Ford has the world's best-selling sport utility vehicle in the Explorer, the best-selling small pickup in the Ranger and the best-selling big truck group in the F-Series. Ford is within a couple of hundred units short of having the best-selling small SUV (the Escape); plus, it has the best-selling sporty car (Mustang) and the best-selling rear-wheel-drive sedans (Mercury Grand Marquis and Ford Crown Victoria). The European business seems to be recovering, too.
For new products, the big F-Series pickup comes out this year; Ford could sell 1 million per year when all the truck plants are rolling. A success here would go a long way to turning around Ford's image.
In the pipeline: a sexy new Mustang, a large sedan called the 500 and an all-wheel-drive sports wagon.
It's not enough new stuff, but it's a start.
The other issue in the bankruptcy nonsense is Ford's debt. The Telegraph put it at $150 billion. That lumps together a lot of unlumpable things. The largest amount is the debt of the Ford credit arm, which finances the cars and trucks Ford sells. Those loans are backed by people paying off car loans. That isn't a problem.
Another big chunk is the pension debt. This debt isn't fully funded ($7 billion underfunded in the U.S.), but it's due over decades. Saying a company can go bankrupt over this debt is like saying, "The social security fund will run out in 2025, so let's all move to Canada now."
Ford says it has $25 billion in cash and, after debts, $11 billion in net cash for its automotive business. The company says the pension debt is manageable. It looks manageable to me, and I've been reporting on this stuff for half a century.
I'm not saying that the pension and future health care costs aren't a problem. A $7 billion obligation isn't a joke. Over the years, either profits or some assets have to be pushed into the fund. That's what General Motors is doing right now to beef up its fund. Of course, it would help if the stock market turned around.
Companies just don't go bankrupt because of underfunded pension funds. What counts is if the company is successfully selling its product and making money. If it is, the pension problems get solved.
Detroit automakers--Ford and GM--are old-economy companies. They aren't Enron or WorldCom, and they don't exist in smoke and dreams. The car companies own factories that make real products. The accounting isn't aimed at pushing up the stock to trick investors. I'm talking about honest companies run by honest men. Yes, they make mistakes. But when they do screw up, they--and you, dear reader--hear it from me.
Look at General Motors, which was in worse shape than Ford and has been turning around its U.S. business. The same thing will happen to Ford.
Jerry Flint, 03.10.03, 6:15 PM ET
Is Ford going bankrupt?
The story was reported this past Friday in the Daily Telegraph of London. Understand, London newspapers have been having trouble keeping readers interested since Diana died and Fergie started wearing tops.
So let's cut to the chase.
Ford Motor is not going bankrupt now or in the near future. While nothing is impossible, I rank the chance as something less than the possibility that aliens from outer space--all resembling Pamela Anderson--will land from rocket ships to seize Earth, and that Saddam Hussein will win his war against the U.S. in a mano-a-mano arm-wrestling contest with President George W. Bush.
In reporting on the ups and downs of the auto industry over 50 years, I have a few ironclad rules. And while I do not sell investment advice, one rule has been to buy General Motors at $30, DaimlerChrysler at $10 and Ford at $6 (meaning anything under $7). This isn't buy and hold forever. This is buy and sell when you have a good profit.
The rumors about a bankrupt Ford apparently started with a Feb. 28 piece in Grant's Interest Rate Observer, quoting Sean Egan, founder of one of the smaller credit-rating agencies, Egan-Jones. The Daily Telegraph's New York-based writer picked it up and ran with it last Friday.
The stories focus on the problems in Ford's auto business and Ford's huge debt.
First, the business: No one has been more critical of Ford's product programs than I have. No one. If you read Forbes.com, you know that. Ford has been slipping. There isn't enough new product. Management has seemed uncertain about what to do with Ford, Mercury and Lincoln cars. General Motors has grabbed the lead in truck (SUV) sales from Ford.
There are problems for Ford in Canada, Brazil and Western Europe as well. But none of these problems is beyond solution. The biggest question is whether the leadership is up to the job. Chairman William Clay Ford Jr. fired the previous chief executive, Jacques Nasser, and just in time. The new leaders are competent, but they aren't inspirational like Lee Iacocca or Robert Lutz. Fair enough.
The bigger issue is the market today. Sales are falling; the economy is sluggish; the stock market is sinking; we're about to march on Baghdad; and gasoline prices are pushing past $2 per gallon. None of that is good for the auto business.
Sales have run to 17 million units in recent years. But, remember, the Gulf War aftermath sank them down to 12.5 million a decade ago. If they go that low, everyone would be in trouble--but that doesn't mean bankrupt. My best guess: Sales will drop a bit from last year and end up closer to 16 million, rather than 17 million.
What the doomsayers forget is that although Ford has problems, it has strengths, too.
Its dealers in America are the best in the business. As in the past, they can carry the company when product slips.
Ford has the world's best-selling sport utility vehicle in the Explorer, the best-selling small pickup in the Ranger and the best-selling big truck group in the F-Series. Ford is within a couple of hundred units short of having the best-selling small SUV (the Escape); plus, it has the best-selling sporty car (Mustang) and the best-selling rear-wheel-drive sedans (Mercury Grand Marquis and Ford Crown Victoria). The European business seems to be recovering, too.
For new products, the big F-Series pickup comes out this year; Ford could sell 1 million per year when all the truck plants are rolling. A success here would go a long way to turning around Ford's image.
In the pipeline: a sexy new Mustang, a large sedan called the 500 and an all-wheel-drive sports wagon.
It's not enough new stuff, but it's a start.
The other issue in the bankruptcy nonsense is Ford's debt. The Telegraph put it at $150 billion. That lumps together a lot of unlumpable things. The largest amount is the debt of the Ford credit arm, which finances the cars and trucks Ford sells. Those loans are backed by people paying off car loans. That isn't a problem.
Another big chunk is the pension debt. This debt isn't fully funded ($7 billion underfunded in the U.S.), but it's due over decades. Saying a company can go bankrupt over this debt is like saying, "The social security fund will run out in 2025, so let's all move to Canada now."
Ford says it has $25 billion in cash and, after debts, $11 billion in net cash for its automotive business. The company says the pension debt is manageable. It looks manageable to me, and I've been reporting on this stuff for half a century.
I'm not saying that the pension and future health care costs aren't a problem. A $7 billion obligation isn't a joke. Over the years, either profits or some assets have to be pushed into the fund. That's what General Motors is doing right now to beef up its fund. Of course, it would help if the stock market turned around.
Companies just don't go bankrupt because of underfunded pension funds. What counts is if the company is successfully selling its product and making money. If it is, the pension problems get solved.
Detroit automakers--Ford and GM--are old-economy companies. They aren't Enron or WorldCom, and they don't exist in smoke and dreams. The car companies own factories that make real products. The accounting isn't aimed at pushing up the stock to trick investors. I'm talking about honest companies run by honest men. Yes, they make mistakes. But when they do screw up, they--and you, dear reader--hear it from me.
Look at General Motors, which was in worse shape than Ford and has been turning around its U.S. business. The same thing will happen to Ford.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: Alexandria VA
No just buy one. There are alot more happy Lightning owners than disgruntled ones. I've had my share of probs with it too ... but they get fixed and the truck runs fine. FYI, the only time I've ever had problems with the truck is when I mod it, thats the chance you take ... it runs perfect now though 
Originally posted by MEAT BAG
I was going to buy a Lightning next week maybe i will think twice about it
I was going to buy a Lightning next week maybe i will think twice about it
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
From: KANSAS CITY, KANSAS
Originally posted by 03Lightning
mswaim, The only thing Enron should teach a properly informed investor is do not invest in "controled stock" ( stock that when you buy it, you are required to hold it for a period of time, this is seen usually in company retirement plans that purchase company stock, ESOP). If you want to invest in fixed accounts earning around .5% after tax and loosing your buying power after factoring inflation in at 3.8% then go ahead. Now is the best time in the past 10 years to begin to invest new money in to the stock market.
mswaim, The only thing Enron should teach a properly informed investor is do not invest in "controled stock" ( stock that when you buy it, you are required to hold it for a period of time, this is seen usually in company retirement plans that purchase company stock, ESOP). If you want to invest in fixed accounts earning around .5% after tax and loosing your buying power after factoring inflation in at 3.8% then go ahead. Now is the best time in the past 10 years to begin to invest new money in to the stock market.
What kind of bottom guarantees are you getting with your stock?
Just wondering since you say now is the time. Thats pure speculation and you cannot guarantee anything. Pure speculation. The old school theory cannot be argued right now of keeping what you have and going safe..
Oh yes..Eveyones rich on paper!!
