CFM Wars Eaton vs. KB vs. Works (112,140,201)
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CFM Wars Eaton vs. KB vs. Works (112,140,201)
To quote NCETRY from another board...(too lazy to put in my own words)
So my question is what are the CFM flow numbers of our eatons and the others at various boost levels?
I noticed 6 lb. pulleys on 99-00 trucks seem to be the upper limit on rods, and 4lbers for the newer ones. What is the reason for disaster on our engines? Is it heat from PSI, too much power?
I'd like to get my hands on one, and I'd like to see where the safe margin's are.
Ah hell, to be honest, can I hotlap mid-high 11s with stock rods in my '99?
[i]NCETRY wrote:
For all those people who think Psi means something I have some ocean front property in Arizona. PSI is a measurement of restriction. What matters is how much air are you getting in the motor. To bad there isn't a gauge that can tell you how many pounds of air a second are going into your engine. You could have a couple different lightnings running the same pulley ratios on the blower and they could have different PSI. A stock engine will show higher boost than a motor that has a ported intake, ported heads and long tube headers. And the engine making less boost will have higher HP
Now for the low trap speeds both JDM and JL who are running mid 10's and only running 125-127mph traps. The reason is these engines are not top end engines also the aero dynamics of a brick kinda slow things down when you start hitting 100+mph. Also a nitrus kit aint cheeper than the blower. I priced out a kit with dirrect port, two 15# bottles, remote valves, heaters, high flow fuel pump and filter, new fuel lines, seperate fuel cell for NO2, and mounting brakets ran over 3 grand and then you still have to fill the tanks with NO2. This was for a 300 shot capable kit.
I will take the blower, air is free
For all those people who think Psi means something I have some ocean front property in Arizona. PSI is a measurement of restriction. What matters is how much air are you getting in the motor. To bad there isn't a gauge that can tell you how many pounds of air a second are going into your engine. You could have a couple different lightnings running the same pulley ratios on the blower and they could have different PSI. A stock engine will show higher boost than a motor that has a ported intake, ported heads and long tube headers. And the engine making less boost will have higher HP
Now for the low trap speeds both JDM and JL who are running mid 10's and only running 125-127mph traps. The reason is these engines are not top end engines also the aero dynamics of a brick kinda slow things down when you start hitting 100+mph. Also a nitrus kit aint cheeper than the blower. I priced out a kit with dirrect port, two 15# bottles, remote valves, heaters, high flow fuel pump and filter, new fuel lines, seperate fuel cell for NO2, and mounting brakets ran over 3 grand and then you still have to fill the tanks with NO2. This was for a 300 shot capable kit.
I will take the blower, air is free
I noticed 6 lb. pulleys on 99-00 trucks seem to be the upper limit on rods, and 4lbers for the newer ones. What is the reason for disaster on our engines? Is it heat from PSI, too much power?
I'd like to get my hands on one, and I'd like to see where the safe margin's are.
Ah hell, to be honest, can I hotlap mid-high 11s with stock rods in my '99?
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From: Selden NY
All I know is this "AND I QUOTE"
• 160 HP increase on100% stock Lightning. Tuneable to +200HP with inlet and chip upgrades.
• *522HP/600 ft lbs with 590 ft lbs from 3300-4500 rpm at 21 psi w/only big filter & throttle body.
• Direct bolt on replacement for less efficient Roots style.
• 96 peak HP improvement over Roots style (511 vs 415) with 9"x2¾" pulleys.
• 60º lower air charge temp with direct bolt on replacement.
• 14HP less parasitic loss with stock boost. More at high boost levels.
• Boost range 9.7 - 22 psi vs. 9.7 - 14.7 Roots style.
• No boost drop off at any rpm regardless of boost (9.7 - 21.5 psi).
• Approx. 10HP per psi boost, easily adjusted with pullies.
• 3½" (9 psi), 3" (12.5 psi), 2¾" (14.5 psi), 2½" (16.5 psi) with stock 7½" crank pulley.
• 3½" (13.5 psi), 3" (18.0 psi), 2¾" (20.5 psi), 2½" (22.0 psi) with 9" crank pulley.
• Quick, easy one bolt/4 minute pulley changes vs. difficult to remove pressed on Roots style.
• Dyno tested and proven in back to back tests.
• Uses same belts as Roots style.
• All hardware and tuning instructions included in kit.
Of course I don't know what any of this means except I did take a liking to the first line, "AND I QUOTE"
"160 HP increase on100% stock Lightning"
• 160 HP increase on100% stock Lightning. Tuneable to +200HP with inlet and chip upgrades.
• *522HP/600 ft lbs with 590 ft lbs from 3300-4500 rpm at 21 psi w/only big filter & throttle body.
• Direct bolt on replacement for less efficient Roots style.
• 96 peak HP improvement over Roots style (511 vs 415) with 9"x2¾" pulleys.
• 60º lower air charge temp with direct bolt on replacement.
• 14HP less parasitic loss with stock boost. More at high boost levels.
• Boost range 9.7 - 22 psi vs. 9.7 - 14.7 Roots style.
• No boost drop off at any rpm regardless of boost (9.7 - 21.5 psi).
• Approx. 10HP per psi boost, easily adjusted with pullies.
• 3½" (9 psi), 3" (12.5 psi), 2¾" (14.5 psi), 2½" (16.5 psi) with stock 7½" crank pulley.
• 3½" (13.5 psi), 3" (18.0 psi), 2¾" (20.5 psi), 2½" (22.0 psi) with 9" crank pulley.
• Quick, easy one bolt/4 minute pulley changes vs. difficult to remove pressed on Roots style.
• Dyno tested and proven in back to back tests.
• Uses same belts as Roots style.
• All hardware and tuning instructions included in kit.
Of course I don't know what any of this means except I did take a liking to the first line, "AND I QUOTE"
"160 HP increase on100% stock Lightning"
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From: Between Dallas & Austin, TX
"160 HP increase on100% stock Lightning"
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From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
This analysis is only partly true. Yes, boost is just a measure of how much air is backed up.
BUT, where did that air come from? CFM.
Other things being equal, a supercharger showing higher boost is supplying higher CFM--that's where the backed-up air comes from.
BUT, where did that air come from? CFM.
Other things being equal, a supercharger showing higher boost is supplying higher CFM--that's where the backed-up air comes from.
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From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
Originally posted by Dale-01L
I do in my '01... No rod problems..
Its all in getting a tune that is nice and safe and has NO detonation.
-Dale
I do in my '01... No rod problems..
Its all in getting a tune that is nice and safe and has NO detonation.
-Dale
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From: Anchorage, AK
True tim but say a Honda 2.0L making 25psi vs. Lightning 25psi and a big V16 cat diesel making 25 psi are not moving the same amount of air to make the same PSI.
Tundra has a valid question how much CFM do these blowers make. I am sure the manufactures know but it might be secrets they don't want to share
Tundra has a valid question how much CFM do these blowers make. I am sure the manufactures know but it might be secrets they don't want to share
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From: Orland Park, IL just south of chicago
I don't know about the person that wrote 3 grand for a nitrous kit, but thats insane!!!! My kit was less then a grand and I can spray 250 shot with it no problem, thats more power then the two blowers will add on your truck? Cause you have to figure that you get a eaton blower up to 16psi + stock on the truck?
Sure the works or KB unit will make more power of the eaton, but add a nitrous kit on the eaton and you'll make more power.
Here max out all 3 blowers on the same motor, which ever one shows the highest PSI level is the one putting out more CFM?
Sure the works or KB unit will make more power of the eaton, but add a nitrous kit on the eaton and you'll make more power.
Here max out all 3 blowers on the same motor, which ever one shows the highest PSI level is the one putting out more CFM?
Last edited by RTKILLA; Feb 6, 2003 at 02:24 AM.
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Re: CFM Wars Eaton vs. KB vs. Works (112,140,201)
Originally posted by Tundra
Ah hell, to be honest, can I hotlap mid-high 11s with stock rods in my '99?
Ah hell, to be honest, can I hotlap mid-high 11s with stock rods in my '99?
sorry it's 2:26 and i'm feeling kinda h...corny.
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From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
Originally posted by NCETRY
True tim but say a Honda 2.0L making 25psi vs. Lightning 25psi and a big V16 cat diesel making 25 psi are not moving the same amount of air to make the same PSI.
Tundra has a valid question how much CFM do these blowers make. I am sure the manufactures know but it might be secrets they don't want to share
True tim but say a Honda 2.0L making 25psi vs. Lightning 25psi and a big V16 cat diesel making 25 psi are not moving the same amount of air to make the same PSI.
Tundra has a valid question how much CFM do these blowers make. I am sure the manufactures know but it might be secrets they don't want to share
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From: Plymouth, MI
I seem to be able to bring threads to a screaching halt with this post, so let's try it again...
I'm sure Works and KB have lots of blower testing equipment so...
Why not post data on their blowers (with appropriate inlets) under the following conditions:
6000 rpm 10 psi
6000 rpm 15 psi
12000 rpm 10 psi
12000 rpm 15 psi
the data should list inlet flow (cfm), input power (hp), and the outlet temperature (with inlet temps at say 70) at each of the above conditions
This won't address the warranty and service questions but it'll give some good info on the blowers...
BTW - I've heard that the numbers for the Eaton M112 (unknown inlet) at 12000 rpm and 10 psi are about 660 cfm, 58 hp, and 270 degrees F (data available on Eaton's website).
I'm sure Works and KB have lots of blower testing equipment so...
Why not post data on their blowers (with appropriate inlets) under the following conditions:
6000 rpm 10 psi
6000 rpm 15 psi
12000 rpm 10 psi
12000 rpm 15 psi
the data should list inlet flow (cfm), input power (hp), and the outlet temperature (with inlet temps at say 70) at each of the above conditions
This won't address the warranty and service questions but it'll give some good info on the blowers...
BTW - I've heard that the numbers for the Eaton M112 (unknown inlet) at 12000 rpm and 10 psi are about 660 cfm, 58 hp, and 270 degrees F (data available on Eaton's website).