The ONLY reason jobs have gone to Mexico is corporate greed. If it weren't for unions we would all be making minimum wage (if that) and still working 16 hour days. Do you really think your company pays you a good wage/salary out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

[RANT ON]

Unions are really good for causing bickering between management and the bargaining unit concerning contract wording. Eventually the bargaining unit employees will reduce the amount of work they do until they reach the absolute minimum required by the contract, or at least the way they interpret the contract, while taking the company's money any way they can by looking for ways to grieve. This results in reducing the company's production and profit while paying the employees more money for less work. It also causes a lot of time being wasted trying to determine if something is against the contract or not, spending time in grievance meetings, and employees talking about union matters on company time.
This negatively affects the company and the employees.

If you want the quality of your job to go downhill fast, vote Yes.

[/RANT OFF]

 

Unions are a NECESSARY evil. A far worse evil is the corporate suits in their ivory towers that have no sense of responsibility toward their employees. If you have an employer who takes care of their workers, the union isn't needed. However, those are usually mom and pop operations, and are few and far between.

Yes, the unions have created new proplems and corruption, and may be responsible for higher prices...but if it weren't for them, the course of American history would certainly be different. The poor working conditions in other countries could still be here if not for the early struggles of unions. Go back and read up on the Ludlow massacre, where even the wives and children of workers were killed.

Someone said that the time for unions is past...I respectfully dissagree. They are more focused now on job retention and benefit packages that ever before. With rising health costs, and the stock market murdering pension plans, the corporations are doing their best to drop these plans, or shift the cost to the employees. The unions are sometimes the only 'human' factor in the whole equation.

JMHO

 

they were good in the 30's and 40's....

 

Ditto.

 

As a Marine Engineer, my union MEBA District 1, is critical. There are scab unions out there that cut pay, increase working hours, less benifits. I ask you...Do you want someone operating 1000 ft of steel filled with petroleum into restricted waters that has been awake for 20+ hrs? (And oh yes, they regularly are awake for 20-30 hrs during manuvering!) When your on a ship in Bahrain, or Kuwait, and hurt yourself, do you want a company that will drop you at the dock in an arab country and tell you "good luck finding the airport!" Or working in the middle of the atlantic in a storm on a ship that hasn't been to the shipyard in 5 years???? Our union gets us the best jobs on the best ships, and protects our safety and rights. They fight to keep shipping US flagged so we don't have Koreans with no experiance taking LNG tankers into Boston Harbor (Even though they do now). I could go on for hours, but I'll just say...In my job, Unions are the only way to go!

 

I am a member of CWA 3104, and the debate good/bad really depends on a lot of factors.

The main concept of unions is the idea of collective barganing. The union represenatives hammer out a deal with the management that applys to all members. The bonus for you as a member is that if you go to your boss and ask for a 17% raise over the next 3 years, don't want to pay for your insurance and dollar for dallar match in your 401K he will probably tell you to get bent. When the union does the same you often get it. Dues are usually about one hour worth of pay per pay period IE: you make $27.50 and hours so you pay $30 a check.

If you are a go-getter unions can be bad for you. Jobs in the contract are catagorized and everyone in those jobs gets paid the same, have the same rights, duties, and chances at advancement based on senority etc. What that means is that if you work really hard and go the extra mile you still get paid the same as the slug who goofs off all day.

There is also the "open shop" rule. Depending on where you live the law may provide for an open shop which means that the employees are not obligated to join the union; however you are covered by the collective barganing contract. This means that you get the pay and everything that the union bargans for, but you don't have to pay dues. The only problem for you if you don't join is that if you screw up or the company tries to cut jobs you DON'T have the protection of the union because you aren't a member.

I have to say that it has worked out pretty well for me; my company did some job cuts to save money this year and they cut MANAGERS not workers. That doesn't happen without a union in the house. I could go on (already have ), but if you have a specific question I'll try to answer.

 

Yes Unions were good in the '30s & '40s and that's about it.

I worked for Boeing many years ago and it was a closed shop. Meaning you joined the union or get fired.

My opinion.... unions suck.

I'm glad to live in Texas which is a right to work state.

 

This may seem a bit harsh because i don't have time at the moment to really craft a long response but here goes.

First, I have no use for a union myself. As far as I am concerned...I cut my own deals. Anyone who thinks they need a union to "protect" them from "evil suits" has a bought into the victim mentality that the unions preach to keep the members dependent on them so they can milk them for higher and higher dues and use them to advance their liberal Democratic candidates. And if you tell me you are in a union and are a conservative I will tell you you are lying to yourself. No true conservative would buy into the idea of collective bargining in it's current state.

Unions are in direct conflict with capitalism. They are one step away from socialism in many ways.

Most of the work rules and contract limitations are more about binding the hands of a company than anything else. Why should an employee be able to tell the owner who he can buy parts from?

If you want to call the shots...buy the company. It's a lot more honest and productive than joining a union.

The union will tell you they are fantastic because they gaurantee you a minimum ammount of pay and benifets. What they don't tell you is they also limit your maximums. with a union in place you have no ability to go in and on your own negociate a pay increase. you are at the mercy of the laziest slug in the company dragging you down.
All the claims about buying union and made in the USA is just a bunch of shinny happy feel good propaganda.

 

I must agree with the previous post....I work for one of the big 3 and see unions very protective of their employees. However, it is to the point where the pay and benefits given to the union members are making it very hard to complete with other car manufacturers. Not to mention the effect it has on the union members. I hate to say it, but with the union looking out for them, they become less and less efficient as workers. The whole 'work hard to get ahead' philosophy is thrown out the window. In the end, when we are put out of business, or our diminished sales lead to layoffs or overseas production, are we really better off?

 

If you want to see just how GREAT non union working environments are, come to my work place and see how long you keep YOUR job. This non union place is doing everything you say union places do. People caught stealing, supervisors that have struck employees, employees that have come in under the influence, to quote a supervisor"I don't feel bad about cutting people from other groups. I can't cut my people. It would be hard on them and me." When business gets so concerned about making money that they don't give a r@t$ a$$ their workers, then you better quit (and how many times do you want to do that?) or get a union. But usually by that time it's too late and yo're on the outside looking in at people that YOU KNOW can't do your job. Like I said before, in the hunky dory workplace where both parties respect each other, you don't need one. Where is that place 'cause I want a job there. Like our company said"You can represent yourself." Right!!!!! You against a corporation. Yea man. I worked in a union utility and have kicked myself for leaving many times. They're not getting job CUTS---they're getting good early retirement incentives. I have seen the good and bad of both sides, and today I VOTE YES unconditionally!

From looking back a bit in these posts, I see people think that a union has no job but to protect the lame workers and collect dues. Maybe you're right by what you've seen, but in my union job we didn't see that. The lame didn't just get fired. They did get a chance to come around. But that was all. If not then the union wouldn't save them. When I proved by my abilities that I was capable of doing higher rated work by being observed doing the work, I could get a higher rated job. No automatic promotions. And people that couldn't were held 'til the could. Now that I have the benefits of a non union job, the layoff are NOT based on what you can do and what you know. The reality of it is that they are all based around what is called a bid sheet and how we fill these out with NO GUIDANCE as to what is expected. This would take a lot of space to explain. All I can say is if I had union the layoffs might still happen but I would at least KNOW what the company is really basing it on.

 

Unions drive up costs. That is why you see so much
outsourcing. I live in Arizona and this state is
a right to work state. I work for honeywell and
twice we have overwhelmingly voted out the
teamsters. Your job is still not secure here in this state even if you belong to a union. I still
have great benefits without a union and I am
an hourly person. I don't have to worry about
stepping on anybody's toes either. Unions are
just like the corporate world. They are a business
too and have rising cost. They are all about
making money also. You have no idea what is on that bargaining table when they hash out a contract. Don't let a union fool you. In the long
run you will lose.

 

I'll back up "logical" & B-townL".

I've heard it said from a top level "suit".

"That'll never happen again"


He was talking about a union strike that was well timed with a production launch.

They burned the company B-A-D by having a strike for higher wages and benifiets. Even though they made more than any other factory workers in a 100 radius.

They are not aware of it. But over 400 jobs that came from our growing business got placed in another state (RTW) and a brand new factory built to support it. All to avoid getting burned again. And now that little town and all thoses union workers are drying up. They caused their own death!

People are so short sighted. They think they have to have "their" rights & protection against the evil "suits" right now!

Make no mistake about it. The man writing the check is the one in control. You may slap him in the face today. But he'll take your job away tomarrow.

Does it not make more sense to be supportive of your management? To accomplish their goals? To exceed their expectations? Would they not be much more inclined to actually listen to the workers wants and needs? And GRANT them!


I've never understood why people want to try and fight as their first ave. over a disagreement?


If a company treats it's employees badly, underpaid, lack of benfiets, ect.. Then LEAVE! Go else where to get a better job. My God, we live in the land that flows with "milk and honey".

Go get ya some! I did and you can too.

WOT

 

Before coming to the car plant and joining the Management side of the business, I spent 15 years as a Journeyman in the
"International Association of Bridge,Structural, and Ornamental Ironworkers". Hard and dangerous work, but rewarding do to Union representation.
The unions in this country have enabled not only their rank and file to realize some very good wages, benefits, and working conditions. Management, at least in the car business, and I have
to believe it extends outside of here too, has increased "our" pay and benefits to stay in line with the Unioin worker in the business.
Now it is my personal belief that some of the unions have gone a little too far in their negotiation " life time jobs" to their members, but then again the businesses they negotiate with must see some dividends in this and have signed up for it.
The unions original intention and purpose was to guarantee a fair wage, and working conditions.
Take time to ponder this and I think you will see that their existance has benefited us 'All".

Marc

 

...union and non-union. Been a union officer, shop steward, negotiatiing committee, and so on. Not in a union at this time.

My general observation is that companies that have unions DESERVED THEM, because somewhere along the line, they mistreated their most valuable asset: their employees. I spent almost 12 yrs working for a company that I can only describe as truly EVIL, and believe me, no one should have to endure the treatment they intentionally put people thru. But, hey, you gotta pay the bills. All you guys who so smugly say, "buy the company" or "get another job" ought to walk a mile in someone else's shoes sometime.

The one thing I don't like about unions is the higher level of confrontation that usually exists between workers and management. Sometimes it gets in the way of doing what makes sense for everyone.