Frank S

Reminds me of some Dateline special where they conducted some experiment with a child pyschologist watching how little kids would play with real guns they found in a toy bin. Then Dateline pulled a surprise and asked the pyschologist to have her kid participate in the experiment. Within seconds the child, who the pyschologist swore would never touch a gun because they had "talked" about it, grabbed the gun, pointed at another kid and pulled the trigger. The pyschologist was in tears that her son didn't obey. I just thought to myself that's what you get, dumba$$. Her solution: they were going to "talk" more about not playing with guns.

My dad's solution to having a fully loaded rifle in the house at all times: He told me that if I ever touched it we would go somewhere where my mother couldn't interfere and he would beat me like he never beat me before, and I might be sent away from home for a long time (i.e. bording school). Needless to say, I found playing with Legos and not having to worry about getting my teeth knocked in much more enjoyable than the few seconds of screwing around with a loaded weapon.

 

chaean:

First I am not going with personal attacks with you, that’s a liberal thing when you people can't defend or explain your position with LOGIC.

OK, FIRST SPECIFIC QUESTION:

Do you or do you not support the 1st amendment? If so do you support flag burning? I ask because most if not all liberals support flag burning as freedom of speech. How they figure putting a flame to cloth speech is beyond me, but then again all my brain cells are intact.

If you do support flag burning (flame to clothe) as freedom of speech then you MUST also support my freedom of speech (Fist to mouth) you would agree with that would you not? It is my freedom of speech to counter another’s freedom of speech if I so disagree with what they may be (saying)

SECOND SPECIFIC QUESTION:

First this question is not met to be personal since I do not know if you have a daughter. I do and I will provide my answer following the question. Let’s assume you have a daughter at the age of 11. A man at say the age of 35 decides he wants to molest her and/or have forced sex with her (RAPE) what should his punishment be?

Should he get only a few months in jail (separated from the REAL men)? Should he only get probation with a requirement of getting counseling? How many shots does he get at your (assumed) daughter before he is put away for life? My definition of life is just that, till the day the bastard dies. Should he only get a “time out”? What if he says he is really, really sorry? Let him go since now he said he is sorry to make you believe he thinks he did wrong?

OK, MY ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION:

He is castrated, ***** cut off, and put in prison till the day he dies. Yes that is for the first offence. That is how "Swift, severe, and certain retribution will modify others behavior." Do not even try to tell me that when other men who think about molesting or raping young girls, or boys hear about that punishment they won’t think twice before they perform their sick actions on an innocent child.

I will go further and tell you if something like that happened to your (assumed) daughter and you and I knew each other I would do the same to the sick bastard that attacked your daughter regardless if you agreed with it or not. To be honest with the above described punishment the sick bastard would be lucky to go to prison because if I carried it out (on the outside of prison) I would let him bleed to death from the castration and cutting the ***** off. One thing is a fact my way or actually done in prison he will NEVER do it again. That means future crimes to children from this man has been eliminated.

Now I ask, who is really protecting the children and looking out for their best interest? People like myself or liberals who forgive when someone say's they are really, really sorry and give VERY light puishment?

 

WOW there are a lot of spankers in here! I hope all of you that feel it is the only way to raise a kid is to spank and/or threaten a major beating actually HAVE kids. If you don't please hush up.

Have you noticed how many people in here that claim to be medicated? Why do you think Prozac is such a hit? (Oops pun intended)

Just as you have been debating above it is our right to raise our kids anyway we want (Some better than others) Most of the people I know that were spanked/beaten growing up are not nearly as well adjusted as the ones that weren't.

I am no liberal and if you walk into my house un-invited yes you will have a few 230 grain hollow points comin your way.

However you raise a child is up to you and YES you can raise well adjusted kids either way, just don't try to tell me the way i am raising my kids is the wrong way. By the way my son is one of the best behaved in his class and his cub scouts and he has never been spanked.

You know I hate watching a parent beat his/her kid in a store

 

The 1st Ammendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. "

Where does it say that the freedom of speech is only for against the government? Freedom of speech is for everyone covering everything; however, freedom of speech stops when slander begins.

Slander is defined as:
slan·der
n.
1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

 

I never said the 1st was against the government only. I said the 2nd was.

I am just an average man trying to interpret the constitution in the present day. I am not a lawyer nor do I study this stuff.

everyone here has great insight and different opinions that make this sight great! I always learn so much. Thank you.

 

hcmq:

I agree with you about I nor anyone else should tell you or dictate to you the "proper" way to raise your child. I think it comes down to, in my opinion, that as long as the parent takes the responsibility to teach their children responsibility then a parent is doing a good job.

I have a daughter and I don't think she has been spanked more then 2 - 3 times and she is now 14. She is a well-behaved kid, has manners, knows responsibility, etc. She knows if she does wrong there will be a price to pay. That could be in the form of restriction 2 weeks etc, no TV, no phone, along those lines.

What I do with her with grades from school is this. I look at it kind of a life experience education. For A's she gets $5, for B's she gets $4, for C's she gets $3, for D's she owes me $4 for F's she owes me $5. It's costing me some money with this kid. She is not all A's, but A's and B's. Now some may find that method wrong but I look at it like this. The better you do, be it education, or at your work the better off you will be. That may be in better pay raises, and job security.

I tell her to always try her best, and that I don't always expect A's, and for that matter B's. I do expect her to be able to tell me she indeed tried her best. To set goals that she can reach. She is awesome at math A's, yet at science she has a hard time, usually C's sometimes B's.

She knows that life is not fair, and never will be regardless of what some people will try to say. Life is a continuing competition and in order to do well in life you have to continue to move forward and not only try your best, but continue to set goals reach them and set more goals. It is sad that some schools do NOT want to teach that in school and try to treat everyone equal, or to equalize them meaning when a kid gets an F, making it so it comes out to be a C. They are worried about the kids self-esteem which is wrong. They need their self-esteem hurt now and then in school in order to learn how to deal with it successfully in life.

 

Hmm, that's funny. I could swear that someone called me "stupid." Specifically, "Your in the stupid "time out" crowd right." How very "liberal" of you, 01 XLT Sport.

First Amendment is among the most unequivocal of all the Bill of Rights. It's my considered opinion that it is the basis of all freedom. Therefore, I consider flag burning as free speech. I do not like it. I am shocked and upset when it happens, but I consider it speech.

Let me turn your question back at you. If it is indeed just "putting a flame to cloth," then why are people upset by it? Why are people offended by the act? I suppose I could presume with some confidence that you would be against flag burning, but why? Why would you be against it if it is mere exothermal reaction? See, it is something more than just cloth burning. it has meaning beyond some weaved sheet of yarn going up in flames. Therein lies the speech. If you can't grasp it, and I suspect you can't, then I am wasting my time with you. But I have some time.
I suppose this would make some sense in a twisted and stupid world, but then, perhaps it's not the world that is twisted and stupid...
[/QUOTE]
SECOND SPECIFIC QUESTION:

First this question is not met to be personal since I do not know if you have a daughter. I do and I will provide my answer following the question. Let’s assume you have a daughter at the age of 11. A man at say the age of 35 decides he wants to molest her and/or have forced sex with her (RAPE) what should his punishment be?

Should he get only a few months in jail (separated from the REAL men)? Should he only get probation with a requirement of getting counseling? How many shots does he get at your (assumed) daughter before he is put away for life? My definition of life is just that, till the day the bastard dies. Should he only get a “time out”? What if he says he is really, really sorry? Let him go since now he said he is sorry to make you believe he thinks he did wrong?[/QUOTE]
A few months in jail for rape and child molestation? That's not any jurisdiction I am aware of, and certainly not in mine. So your hypothesis is somewhat flawed. I sincerely hope that something like that did not happen your your daughter or anyone you know, however.

Quote:

OK, MY ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION:

Ah, yes, the titillating answer...

Quote:

He is castrated, ***** cut off, and put in prison till the day he dies. Yes that is for the first offence. That is how "Swift, severe, and certain retribution will modify others behavior." Do not even try to tell me that when other men who think about molesting or raping young girls, or boys hear about that punishment they won’t think twice before they perform their sick actions on an innocent child.

I will go further and tell you if something like that happened to your (assumed) daughter and you and I knew each other I would do the same to the sick bastard that attacked your daughter regardless if you agreed with it or not. To be honest with the above described punishment the sick bastard would be lucky to go to prison because if I carried it out (on the outside of prison) I would let him bleed to death from the castration and cutting the ***** off. One thing is a fact my way or actually done in prison he will NEVER do it again. That means future crimes to children from this man has been eliminated.

Boy, that sounds fun. You certainly sound like you'd have quite a bit of fun exacting your brand of justice. I mean, the gory, intimate, almost homoerotic BDSM details, and the obvious savoring of blood and pain. I must admit, it's not too dissimilar to some ravings of serial killers I have read in my work. It's one thing to love your family, but quite another to work out such a detailed revenge/justice senario in your head. Do you think of it often? And what other sexual mutilations have you thought up for other offenses?

Quote:

Now I ask, who is really protecting the children and looking out for their best interest? People like myself or liberals who forgive when someone say's they are really, really sorry and give VERY light puishment?

Uh, does that mean you've cut off some penises (penes?) lately?

cpadpl: I'll answer you shortly, but I'm having too much fun with 01 XLT Sport.

And for God's sake, people, Bill of Rights protects you from the government actions. You don't have a generalized right of free speech, etc as applies to other private individuals or private groups. I guess that misconception is an indicator of something, largely that I'm wasting my time with the plebeians. :P

 

chaean:

I gave you a chance to prove you were not a bleeding heart liberal, but once again you failed... Sad.

No I never said you were stupid. Can you read? the statement was "you are in that stupid "time out" crowd right?" Since you could not seem to grasp that statement and it's meaning here we go. I think that the "time out" is STUPID. How you got that I called you stupid from that is beyond me, but I can understand. It is what liberals continue to turn to when they can not handle a mature, educated debate. They (liberals) always have to resolve into name calling and twisting things rather then grasp the true understanding.

As far as flag burning, yes I am against it. It is NOT freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is just that SPEECH, not an ACTION. the flame to clothe is an ACTION, not a speech.

However, if you agree that flame to clothe is freedom of speech then so is my "FIST TO MOUTH" to the one doing the burning. You yourself said it, your calling flame to clothe speech then so would my fist to someones mouth. Please get with the program. Defend you answers ALL the way through, COMPLETELY not just half-assed.



"A few months in jail for rape and child molestation? That's not any jurisdiction I am aware of, and certainly not in mine. So your hypothesis is somewhat flawed."


Really? how so? please do explain. So I must be a complete moron when I hear and read how these sick morons do it more then one time. How they get out and do it again. Every hear of "MEGAN'S" law? Where do you think that came from?

So what is your answer to the SPECIFIC question I had for you? What is your recommendation for punishment? Don't make it out like I am the sick bastard for what I would do. My punishment FITS THE CRIME, and further more insures IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!!! with the same moron. The fact of the matter is once it was to get out what would happen child rape and molestation would drop DRASTICALLY, that is a FACT!!!

I guess you get so pissy because people like me have REAL answers that WILL solve many problems, and people like you know it WOULD work.

So it's time to stop hidding behind all this name calling your doing and trying to make me out like some sick sexually twisted bastard to mask your inability to answer a SPECIFIC question.

ANSWER THE QUESTION, what is your recommendation for punishment for a first offence of child molestation and/or child rape?

Let's see if your man enough to actually answer that question with a specific answer. For extra bonus points how about trying to do it without calling me names, putting me down, and trying to make me out like some sick wacko.

My answer to the question works, no dought about it. Let's see how close your's come to working and if it will be guranteed to insure the person never does it AGAIN.

 

cpadpl:

Don't hold out on hope for any specific or educated answers to your questions from chaean. As you can see from his childish post to me when asked specific questions he played out to be a die hard bleeding heart liberal. Twisting almost every word to fit his agenda.

It is so sad what these people have done to this great nation.

 

Then what does that make our lawyer friend?

 

chaean:

Sorry, I forgot to address a few things:

"Let me turn your question back at you. If it is indeed just "putting a flame to cloth"

(Putting a flame to cloth) was a figure of speech, it was met to simplify the conversation.

“See, it is something more than just cloth burning. it has meaning beyond some weaved sheet of yarn going up in flames. Therein lies the speech”

Where????? You say “therein lies the speech” I don’t get it. See if this helps and then please give me your personal definition where you are able to twist an action into a speech.

The American Heritage Dictionary

Defines speech as:

Speech – 1. The act of speaking. 2. The capacity to speak. 3. Vocal communication; conversation. 4. The manner in which one speaks. 5. A talk or address, esp. one delivered to an audience. 6. The language or dialect of a nation or region.

It is quit clear there to anyone with an education that speech is just that. It is saying words, or could be writing words for another to read. Now if someone wants to get up and “speak” or have a “speech” on how they hate the flag, or how they would love to burn the flag, or do what ever it is they would “like” to do then fine that would be defined as “freedom of speech”. However, once they STOP speaking and carry out an ACTION of putting flame to cloth the speech stops, and all rights that guarantee that speech END.

If you continue to deny the FACT that flag burning is NOT speech then you MUST agree and uphold my right to put my fist to someone’s mouth. You can NOT make one a right of freedom of speech without agreeing to the other. To do otherwise, well is just not logical, nor creditable. A few other words would be hypocritical, sanctimonious, and deceitful.

Not to bad for a plebeian.

 

ya'll ain't got nuthin on Texas

 

Gentleman,

I had a very insightful chat with my better half this am and she made a very interesting point. The 2nd says that we have the right to bear arms. No where does it say in context or inference that we have the right to bear guns!

I was stunned by this comment and found it most interesting. What do you think?

 

hcmq

I think it's unfortunate such a simple sentence can be misconstrued. And what, per se, does "arms" mean then?

Even a cursory review of any historical document or just a general knowledge of history will demonstrate that they are specifically referring to firearms, which includes both guns and rifles. Both pistols and rifles were used by the militia during the War of Independence. Even anti-gun enthusiasts agree with this. Their main point is that the 2nd Amendment refers to the state National Guard.

I guess I'm confused as to what you're eluding to.....Are you suggesting that "arms" means swords, or only rifles, or what?

 

I sense a pattern. If I don't agree with 01 XLT Sport, then I'm a liberal.

Haha, that's precious. That's a dodge on par with that infamous "I did not have sexual relation with that woman." That's positively Clintonian. You're looking more liberal more you write. Where is this personal responsibility you spoke of?

Quote:

As far as flag burning, yes I am against it. It is NOT freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is just that SPEECH, not an ACTION. the flame to clothe is an ACTION, not a speech.

Action is speech. Perhaps you have heard this before, "Action speaks louder than words." (and wow, you read dictionaries. Did it have pictures? Did they pop up?)

Quote:

However, if you agree that flame to clothe is freedom of speech then so is my "FIST TO MOUTH" to the one doing the burning. You yourself said it, your calling flame to clothe speech then so would my fist to someones mouth. Please get with the program. Defend you answers ALL the way through, COMPLETELY not just half-assed.

Now if that flag was draped on your ***, perhaps halfway covering it (half-assed? Haha ), and some idiot tried to torch it, your analogy would make some sense. And if you can't make the distinction, ah well, it's probably genetics. And your teachers probably didn't whup you enough to teach you any better, of course.

Quote:

Every hear of "MEGAN'S" law? Where do you think that came from?

Certainly not from your homoerotic fantasies.

Quote:

[All the shouting deleted]
ANSWER THE QUESTION, what is your recommendation for punishment for a first offence of child molestation and/or child rape?

In Georgia, it's 5 to 20 years fo the first offense, 5 being the mandatory minimum. I confess I haven't yet conjured up any fantasies involving genital mutilations, but I guess I'm too uptight that way. If I ever do, please be assured that I'll call my state representative or senator and persuade them to introduce a bill, all legal-like. I'll even give you credit. We'll call it, "01 XLT Sport is an angry repressed closet homosexual law!"

Seriously for a moment, I probably have had more involvement (legal-like ) with child molestation cases than most in this forum. It is a heinous offense that rarely leaves any one involved in the case without a deep impact. At the same time, each case is unique. Why, I can even think of a few where 01 XLT Sport wouldn't have any ***** to mutilate. I'm sure he's disappointed.

Quote:

Let's see if your man enough to actually answer that question with a specific answer. For extra bonus points how about trying to do it without calling me names, putting me down, and trying to make me out like some sick wacko.

Hey, I wasn't the guy with a detailed fantasy involving some guy's genitals. It's all you, man.

Quote:

Not to bad for a plebeian.

You would think that, wouldn't you? It's sad, really. Everything you have said so far reads like some tired, overblown cliched reactionary rhetorics from a political goodwill store, desperately seeking second life, with nothing original other than your genital mutilation fantasy.

BTW, next time you go to a bar, share your fantasy with two guys sitting to either side of you. My guess is they'll slide away. If not, I wouln't advise going camping with them, especially if they can play the banjo.