You're right it's not a 'new' law. But it's also not a municipality of Atlanta. Its Kennesaw, GA. And yes they have one of the lowest crime rates in the country per capita. How can you say it's not effective? Wait. You're a lawyer, right? I understand now.

Gun ownership prevents crime.

 

Washington DC, is a great example, they have the most gun laws, and still have the highest crime rate going!!!

 

Kennesaw is a city, and is within the metro Atlanta area which encompasses a number of adjoining counties. So yes, Kennesaw is a metro Atlanta municipality, just as Decatur, Marietta, Smyrna are.

And as far as any causal relationship between Kennesaw's relatively unknown ordinance and its low crime rate, I remain unconvinced. Any parts of Atlanta may have higher (albeit unregistered and illegal ) gun ownership per capita than Kennesaw but can have higher, much higher crime rate.

Generally more affluent an area, lower the crime rate. But then, does that mean the rich (or relatively affluent) commit less crimes? Probably not.

 

FYI -

I was incorrect, the state in the news program was Arizona. Anyway, no, the law wasn't old. I am starting to lose my memory, but I'm not completely incompetent (yet). The news show distinctly follow the beginning of this community to the end. I remember watching the individual reporter interview the developer standing on nothing but dry arid land with nothing around for miles.

Funny how it's impossible to find anything on this city on the Internet. And I'm not claiming the liberals are hiding the city's existence, but I do think that the media likes to ignore any pro-gun statistics. This interview was back in the early 90s, and I haven' t heard a thing about this community since then....But that doesn't surprise me. With all the defensive uses of hanguns that save lives, you never, NEVER hear of a story about that. I've probably heard 4 in the past 3 years. It's usually something as short as, "and the home owner wounded the perpetrator with his firearm..."

Amazing they don't make such a big hoopla as they do when some idiot is showing his gun off to his buddy and blows his head off....Hmmm....when guns do good, don't report it...when guns do bad, report it....

 

Kennesaw is alot farther from Atlanta than any of those cities.


So I guess since you "remain unconvinced", it couldn't be true? Um, yeah, ok.

Per capita the rich DO commit less crimes. The very poor obviously steal to get money for food, rent, etc. The rich do not. Let's deal in reality and not 'your'opinions please. Gun ownership by law-abiding people decreases crime rates. Enough of your lawyering(embellishing).

 

Frank S:

What I, you, cpadpl and most other say on here will NEVER make since to liberals. It truley is a waste of time to talk FACTS with them. Fact is nothing they can do about taking guns away or making us register them since the constitution already states it is are RIGHT. Fact, guns owned by law obiding citizens lower crime rate. Fact if any of our cities made it mandatory for us to carry guns in the open the crime rate would be further drastically reduced. Fact rich people do not need to comment crimes, the poor, drug adicted, brain dead do most of the crime. They do most of the crime because the liberals keep them weak, stupid, uneducated etc. that is a fact.

Liberals only deal in fiction and lies. They have absolutely no charcter, no morals what so ever. Fact, they proved it last night with their BIG polictical party over Welstones death. It was NO mormoral what so ever. Liberals brainwash their followers into believeing they will help. Black are still quit poor and in bad neighborhoods, they are there because its where the liberals want them. They do not have access to good education because the liberals do not want them to. The conseritives want to help them, they wanted to provide schooling that would be some of the best in the country but the liberals and teachers unions (liberals with jobs) shut that down.

As the liberals did last night, using Welstones death to more their agenda forward is what they do to all the people that follow them, be it black, other minorities, women etc. Liberals do not know what laws mean, I am not sure if it is because perhaps they cant read or what it is, but in either case it can be right there in black and white and they just don't understand the words they are reading. Liberals only understand 3 things, MONEY, POWER, and CONTROL. They will do what ever they need to, lie about whatever they must to keep the 3 most important things to them.

I have yet to meet a liberal that is educated, understands english, has any moral values, or charcter at all. They are users, they used drugs in the 60's and they use the weak, mindless, stupid, and uneducated people today.

People are starting to wake up to this love fest the liberals have had for so long. People are starting to ask "why have I supported these people for all these years and I am still held back, held down, no help at all" They are begining to relize that all liberals have done was make BIG money off of them and gain more POWER because of them. When liberals are done using them they toss them to the side.

Aftet last night and the political 4hr party they had on TV billed as a momoral for Welstone it is a very sad day in America. But is a begining of a bright tomorrow because many more people are relizing THEY CAN NOT TRUST A LIBERAL BECAUSE THEY LIE.

 

Frank, Kennesaw is within metro Atlanta area. I mean, it's pointless to argue but Cobb is a metro Atlanta county. If it makes you feel any better, Alpharetta and Roswell are also metro Atlanta area municipalities and Marietta is a stone throw south (but an hour away in morning commute) of Kennesaw.

I'm not sure what the fact I am an attorney has anything to do with this, however.

Kennesaw, like most other affluent "bedroom communities," has a low crime rate, something that is shared by other affleunt communities without a mandatory gun ownership ordinance. I can see that there are other factors at play in this, so that's why I remain unconvinced. Perhaps I have explained my position a bit better this time.

You stated that "Gun ownership by law-abiding people decreases crime rates. Enough of your lawyering(embellishing)." I trust I can take that as a repositioning of your prior unequivocal statement that "Gun ownership prevents crime." At least, it's an embellishment to your prior statement. And you're not even a lawyer. Good job.

BTW, I wasn't even alive in the 60's so I am definitely not a liberal.

 

Look at it like this, a moron tries to steal your car (car-jacking) you shot the moron and he dies. You have prevented a crime and future crimes by the same dead moron.

You get home and late at night a moron comes into your home uninvited. You shot the moron and the moron is dead. You have now prevented another crime and future crimes that can no longer be commited by the same dead moron.

Not only have you reduced and prevented crime you have also saved tax payers TONS of cash.

It's a win-win situation

Locked and loaded, standing-by to prevent crime and reduce tax rates...

 

wow what a great debate!

chaean what are your "views" on what is going on in Washington DC? Guns are illegal in the city limits yet they have one of the highest murder rates by guns in the country?!

I used to live in Denver and they have some strange gun laws there that seem to work. You cannot have a long gun in your car with ammo anywhere near it (for poaching) BUT you can have a loaded, ****ed, ready to fire, concealed handgun in the passanger compartment of the car. I didn't believe the law so I had a detective friend of mine photcopy the law book for me! Sure enough it's true! Denver has pretty bad traffic and they have virtually no car jackings or road rage crimes.

the moral of the story is that just because there is a law it doesn't mean that everyone will run out and buy a gun to put in their car. BUT it is asumed that you DO have a gun in your car so no one takes the chance. Take DC for example, the criminals/morons/devients assume that no one has a gun because of the law so they are more likely to use one in the crime they are going to commit.

I believe the crux of the issue is that people that want to ban guns go on the theory that if no one has guns no one can get shot. That theory would have worked if our country started out that way, it's too late now there are millions of guns out there that are un registered that if a no gun law passes they will still be out there

We need to manage our current situation and be realistic about it.

Enough for now.

 

I think this statement, to have any chance at all of being true, needs to be ammended, because recent events point out that rich people do in fact commit crimes (anyone heard of Enron, Martha Stewart, Imclone to name a few?) - it is just that they are not generally of a violent nature, where a firearm is likely to be employed. And I don't think that "need" has ever played a part in the commission of a crime - perceived need, perhaps, but not true need.

hcmq - Excellent post!

 

I'm not sure if I gave off an impression that I am for gun control. I am not. I like gun. I had guns before, including an AK-47 with legacy 50 round clip.

My view on guns is this. Gun is not the problem. It's an inanimate object under control of a sentient being. And along that same line, gun cannot be the answer, because it is -- once again -- just an inanimate object under control of a sentient being. It's a human problem, and a human answer. That's why gun control legislations designed to restrict access to guns do not work, the D.C. example being a prime one. The focus needs to change to education and training, not necessarily on how to handle guns and shoot them, but to educate and elevate the human beings, to teach respect and discipline and self-control. That's why I am wary of some people who say "gun ownership is my right and I'm gonna have one no matter what." Yes, it is your right. But so far you haven't told me a single thing about whether you have the necessary discipline and self-control to exercise that right in a safe and responsible way. So while I'm not going to object, I am going to walk very far away from you and stay there until I see otherwise. With my gun. Pointed not quite at you. You best not make any sudden movements. You hear?

 

Hell I can answer that. Yes I have the necessary discipline and self-control because of my belief system. I believe I am responsible for my actions. I believe I am accountable for my actions. Therefore I know if I was just to shoot someone for the hell of it then I will, or should, go to jail till the day I die if I took another life.

On the other hand those that are against guns (usally liberals) do NOT have the necessary discipline and self-control because they do NOT believe they are responsible for their actions. They do NOT believe the should be held accountable for their actions. They believe if they shoot someone for the hell of it they should NOT go to jail because they believe it was someone elses fault that they did what they did. They would argue that it was the gun that killed, the bullet that killed etc, thier mommy and daddy beating them as a child made them do it, the poor neighborhood they grew up in made them do it, their brother beating their *** as a child made them do it, the list goes on.

Those who own guns generally have the same belief system that I do. I will say again however it don't really matter what anyone else thinks of me the FACT is I have the right to own a gun and I will, I will not, ever register it in any way because I DON'T have to.

You will never solve the problem by education, or by preaching to people how they should treat one another. Don't work, won't work. If you want to solve the problem INFORCE the damn laws you have on the books now. When you actually inforce laws, making people responsible for their actions you will begin to solve many problems we have today.

The reason we have so many problems today is not guns, it is people who are not held accountable for their actions. It's very simple, its very logic, its very black and white.

 

Ahh, if only life were that simple. Those black and white colors
form shades of gray when your mix in a couple of idiots, and
there is a plentiful supply of them in this country.

 

I will definitely go along with this, although I do think that a part of the teaching on respect needs to be a healthy respect for what a firearm can actually do. If all someone knows about firearms is what they have seen in movies, they need a good dose of reality.

I think that a couple of different issues may be getting lumped into one. It is my right, as evidenced by the US Constitution, to OWN a gun. However, there is no provision made in that document for me to carry a concealed handgun. That is a privilege, bestowed upon me by the State of Arkansas. As such, I was more than willing to provide the serial number of my handgun - ostensibly to ensure that the gun was not stolen - to be printed on my permit. Granted, this isn't the same as registration, but it might as well be. Of course, since this is a PRIVILEGE, not a right guaranteed us by our founding fathers, the State is well within its rights to require this, and I had a choice. I could provide it and get my permit, or not provide it, not get a permit, and be illegal any time I carried a concealed weapon. Either way - it had no bearing on my right to own that gun. [As a side note, I believe that even this requirement has changed.]

It was only following successful completion of a State approved training course, which included both classroom instruction and live fire qualification, that the State decided that I had "the necessary discipline and self-control to exercise that right in a safe and responsible way" and granted me a concealed carry permit.

 

Man I am really loving this sight today! I really needed to exercise brain today (A lot of stress at work)

It is irrevelant if you have the discipline to own a gun. It is your right to "bare arms" what you do with them is YOUR choice.

XLT sport is correct, we need to inforce the laws we have now even if they are greatly flawed (I will not give a million examples right now) Jail is a cake walk for most people.

I guess the point is that guns really are not the problem. There are many problems surrounding them however that need addressed and over the past 200+ years these problems have been convoluted by our society and no one thus far has had guts/brains/power/honesty to fix them.

This is so grey that I don't even know how to end this conversation!

Just be careful and do what you believe is right.

Thanks JDM!