as far as the answer to the child's question, i agree with trapper. my son who is 10 yrs old, gets a $5 a week allowance, also he does little odd things for the neighbors to make a little more dough. (haul groceries,etc). last summer he wanted a skateboard that cost $140. i told him, no problem i'll drive you down to get it. oh bring your money. he got in the truck went to the shop and when he got there he made me very proud when he said "maybe i should buy a less expensive one until i get a little better at riding" ah he learned how hard it is to work for the money.
he regularly saves his money for vacations and other things he wants. many of my neighbors think he is totally spoiled because i bought him a dirt bike. what they don't realize is that when he wanted his bike i told him if he could raise the money for the helmet ($120) i would buy the bike. yes he got the bike for free but he busted his but getting that helmet. (work for what you want)
now days when he wants things he doesn't even ask he just tells me how long he has to save to get it.

oh a side note. his birthday is in 2 weeks, and he has become quite the skateboard rider, and the cheaper board he purchased broke last month. i'm thinking about getting him the better board for his birthday present. any thoughts?

 

I'd definitely get him the board.

Sounds like he's doing a good job of learning to earn and manage his own money. A little splurge won't hurt.

 

I agree. There is another important factor in success that is rarely mentioned. Home. By occassionally indulging or helping our children we show them that it's OK to try the hard things in life. There will always be a person that will help out when things fall apart. Don't be a crutch. Be a safety net. The ability to chance failure is directly related to the "cost" of failure.

 

Just curious, I've read this thread with great interest, because I live life as a black man in America.

While I consider myself to have been a victim of many kinds of racism in my life, I try very hard not to practice "victimhood" or walk around with a huge chip on my shoulder because of the very obvious(to me) examples of racism and discriminatory practice that occur as a result of what Colin Powell termed "a benign physical characteristic" (skin color).

I almost didn't post, because I sensed a willingness in some of the posts to generalize about black people and their behavior. I felt that what I might say might be flamed immediately because I don't agree with a lot of the points that have been made about black people.

What made me go ahead and post, was the sense of community I feel with many of you, that I've never met, never talked to, and only read your posts. I assume that many of you are, (as am I) very proud, patriotic, hard-working Americans who value our families and love this great country. So, I'm guessing that most of you will at least hear me out and apply a good deal of thoughtfulness to what I'm saying about a problem that has divided American from American ever since the founding of this great country.

I am proud to be the great-grandson of former African slaves, as well as a direct descendant of immigrant Irish and Scott Slave owners who choose to come to this country. Native-Americans also make up a significant portion of my family heritage. My point is, I, just as many of you, can be described as the quintessential American.

I don't necessarily agree with the premise of this supposed game, "life as a black man," because it appears to trivialize the very challenges that we (all of us black and white) have worked very hard to overcome.

That said however, I don't like it when I hear people say things that seem to make light of the challenges that I and many other hard working, tax paying, home buying, God fearing, stable family raising, non-stereotypical black people face.

I have experienced "driving while black." In my F-150!!!!!! It's no fun to get pulled over(for no apparent reason) and harassed by members of the Police department whose authority I was always taught to respect.

It's also no fun to watch cabs drive by you, and pick up a similarly clad white man for reasons that you can only believe have to do with your skin color when it is the only thing that distinguishes you from him.

As for affirmative action, I hear a lot of complaints by white guys who feel affirmative action unfairly victimizes them. I feel your pain. I watched as many equally qualified talented black men were passed over for white men only because of their skin color. Labor unions would not allow black brick masons to join because of their skin color. That equates to affirmative action for the white members of those labor unions.
My grandfather, a very good machinist who worked very hard for everything that he got, trained many of his white bosses, because of Jim Crow laws in the South. How many years has that gone on in America?

How about my dad, who was unable to complete the requirements for Eagle Scout because of restrictions placed upon him by the segregated south?

My aunt who while in nursing school in the 1930's was told that black nurses got paid less than white nurses because, "It costs more for a white woman to live?"

What makes this most painful, is an apparent unwillingness by some (not all) of the majority ethic group in this country to accept that what I'm talking about is alive and well in America today.

I believe as many of you do, that the problems that are typically associated with being black in this society have almost everything to do with drugs, very low socio-economic status and the breakdown of families and and almost nothing to do with race.

And lest we forget, I too drive a Ford F-150, and I applaud what my fellow F-150 owners and drivers are doing to run off drug dealing thugs from poor black neighborhoods. Now how about driving off the disproportionately large numbers of suburban dwelling youth in expensive cars who buy the drugs from the corner dwelling thugs in poor neighborhoods?

Listen, I could go on and on, but I believe that many of you who are not black, have experienced many of the same kinds of trials and unfairness, but not necessarily because of your skin color.

Here's a little more food for thought:

http://www.aei.org/ra/rawils020217.htm

Feel free to drop me a line if you want to keep the dialog going. I look forward to your responses.

Let's all keep talking and working until it gets better.

God Bless America.

Peace


Ok, had to get that off my chest. I vote for the "Life as a Cheby owner game."

 

T-Rex

Very well said. Sometime there is so much to say that it's difficult to put it into words.

Your post was both to the point and concise.

I grew up and live in a neighboorhood that is about 85% white. I thank my dad who as a Mexican Imigrant came to the States in the early 60 and worked his *** off to move us into this neighboorhood.

The funny thing is that as Mexican American who feels very comfortable working and living in a white world I am at times looked at as a sell out by other Mexicans. At the same time I had a discussion with a white neighbor a couple of years ago and she really started ranting about bilingual education in our schools. Now, I didn't so much disagree with her position but was floored by her comment that "You (meaning me) are not like THOSE Mexicans".

I don't think she even realized what she said and who she said it to. I'm sure some of the people who have posted generalizations on this thread might say the same thing to you. "Golly gee, T-Rex, we didn't mean these bad thing about good black folk like you who are smart enough to own a Ford truck.......

I guess the point I'm trying to make and that I tried to make in my last post is that until you meet, work and break bread with people of other races and cultures you will never know that there are great people of every color out there and just as equally bad people of every color.

I especially admire those who are willing to step up and say what is on their mind.

Peace to you T

 

HUMAN RACE ....

 

T-Rex, It is guys like you that keep a lot of people on track for racial harmony. Unfortunately, many of the people I speak of probably could not read what you posted. They would not care to read it. Something makes them give up at a very young age.

The best boss I ever had was a black man named Morris Morgan. He was a hard worker and a great person. I always admired him. He had a wife, a child, a home and a career.

I also failed to mention that the biggest reason we sit on street corners is the buyers, not the sellers. We run the buyers off with cameras but it is the sellers that get so pissed off. WE are just fighting back. Dealers know they are allowed to be on the "right of way", well if they can, then so can we, with video cameras.

I wish that the majority of blacks were like you T-Rex.

 

Ouch!

Sometimes we say what our perception of the World is without thinking. I don't think I have heard a compliment wrapped in a slight like that before. I know it was unintended so, let me rephrase it.

"I wish that the majority of blacks that I come in contact with were like you T-Rex."

 

T-Rex

I'm glad you did post. I think I'm reading you right that you really aren't too fond of the board game, try not to practice victimhood, but you don't "like it when I hear people say things that seem to make light of the challenges that I and many other hard working, tax paying, home buying, God fearing, stable family raising, non-stereotypical black people face." With regards to AA, you state -"As for affirmative action, I hear a lot of complaints by white guys who feel affirmative action unfairly victimizes them. I feel your pain. I watched as many equally qualified talented black men were passed over for white men only because of their skin color. Labor unions would not allow black brick masons to join because of their skin color. That equates to affirmative action for the white members of those labor unions. My grandfather, a very good machinist who worked very hard for everything that he got, trained many of his white bosses, because of Jim Crow laws in the South. How many years has that gone on in America?...What makes this most painful, is an apparent unwillingness by some (not all) of the majority ethic group in this country to accept that what I'm talking about is alive and well in America today."

Two points -

1) As I said earlier, as someone whose ancestors immigrated here long after the Civil War and suffered their own discrimination (and had the ***** to live through it), why should I suffer ANY major or minor interference with my job progression because of "the black experience in America.." Your generalization can be construed as insulting to me as our generalizations can to you - "a lot of complaints by white guys.." Guess what, I'm not a WASP (although my skin may be white) but I've suffered reverse discrimination....Is that fair in the grand scheme of things (I'm 50% Italian, 50% Irish)? Or is the "travesty" that befell the African Americans so great that even innocent bystanders must suffer now too to pay back the African American? Both our anscestors suffered discrimination, but your discrimination suffered was somehow worse, so now I pay the price?

2) I am by far not a "Jew-lover", as one might put it...In fact, I might say that in the current state of affairs I'm can understand the Palestianian plight a little, but anyway, what I respect immensely about the Jews is that they don't whine about how many thousands of years of persecution and how many millions dead? They just stick together and try to build themselves internally to a better "state"...In short, the Jews don't complain, they just kick a$$ and take names. Arguably, what the African Americans suffered was truly horrible, but compared to the hardships the Jews have endured throughout the history of the world the comparison is almost laughable, especially considering Africans were the ones that sold Africans into slavery...

Thus, I have never understood the "standing" African Americans have for needing special treatment and retribution....Indeed, in the history of America (not the world), the African Americans probably suffered the greatest tragedy. But you would think that something would be learned from the Irish and Italian's who lived through American discrimination, as well as the Jews who have lived through world-wide discrimination, and that is the only way to overcome it is to suck it up, work and do better than everyone else, and eventually you will come out the other end with respect....

That's just my opinion, T-Rex, I seriously don't mean to offend you, as I know I can sometimes do that....But I think that it's a legitimate query from someone (a so-called white guy) who has suffered discrimination in his family's past and wants to know what's so special about you...I could give you stories that rival your "aunt and grandpa" story, like my great-great-grandfather's brother that was beat to death for being in the non-Irish section of town, and my great-great-grandfather had to adopt his 3 children in addition to his own 4, all the while working 3 jobs while his wife couldnt' find work because no one would hire Irish.....I accept that the discimination exists today, just don't accept that affirmative action is the way to fix it ....

 

t-rex: well written, and interesting to see the viewpoints of a black man.
it's not that we don't think there are certain race specific hardships faced by all races, it's just that many seem to decide that rather then try to make it, they'd rather just take the handout.
funny, one day a short while ago i was talking to one of the black men here at work. he was telling me his buddy had been arrested in a small town a short distance from here for stealing. (caught red handed) the first thing he said was "oh that town is not the place to be for a black man".
the funny part was that i had lived there for 2 1/2 years and graduated high school there. i told him this and we began to talk about the town. i told him of some trouble i had there, and all of a sudden it hit him, he said " wow you mean white boys have trouble there too". this is not a joke, he actually said it. many blacks believe that if they get in trouble it's because they're black not because they were breaking the law.
it seems somewhere they have gotten the idea that if we do something wrong we get let go, but they must pay the piper.
my friend was honestly surprised that i had been in trouble in that town, because i was white and he assumed that gave me the green light to do as i pleased.
the point of this is, not everything is race related. i've been stopped for driving in places where an officer figured i looked out of place before. i never took it as a race thing, may have been but oh well.
i've been passed over for jobs because ,and i quote "i aint hiring no damn yankee" while in tenn. with my wonderful wisconsin accent. i didn't call racism or anything else, it made me that much more determined to get a job there and to get one that paid more then the one i couldn't have.
most people i know have no problems with blacks. it's the ones who say, oh you owe me, that people have no respect for.
finally yes i understand that there are worthless people of all colors, i've met many of all races, it's just that the blacks are the ones with our hero jesse and those like him throwing gasoline on a hot fire trying to stir things up.

 

ooops, almost forgot. thanks for the posts about the board. yep i think he'll be getting it. i'll let you know how he likes it.

 

Alright, since we are all coming out of the closet...

(First, let me say I have enjoyed the anonymity this website has provided.)

I am a ....Klingon. You think I don't know discrimination?
Imagine what it's like to even show my face at a restaurant. We are no worse than any other war-like race in the universe. That Kirk is so smug but, you just love him! Everything known about us is lies, all lies!

Damn Gene Roddenberry to Hell!

 

T-rex - thanks for the input, and please don't hold back on anymore you may want to post. I think I could speak for most everyone in this discussion that we would be more *offended* if you didn't offer up your opinion.

What you said above, I think it is very true. The problem is, that is what gets portayed more to society. In all honesty, when it comes to drugs/dealing I will say that there is an equal amount of both white and black involved in it in this area. But as a generality we all now who wil recieve the most blame. Really all this can be applied to many races.

Also from you said, you've been through alot. My g/f's parents have been through the same thing, discrimination, unfair treatment, etc. etc all because of their skin color. Regardless they are great people who brush it off and go on, still being successfull both in work and family.

Everyone has made some great points. IMO alot of these problems (with any race) boils down to a few reasons: laziness, feeling the world owes you, and not taking responsibility. That covers everything.


Raoul - LOL, remind me never to face you in Bat-let

 

T-Rex - forget, very good article you posted. I'll hold back on comments though, I think we'll need a new thread for that one.

 

raoul: coming out of the closet? does that mean you're a klingon in drag?