While I agree in large part with Dennis (very large part), I also agree that the educational system is somewhat lacking. My belief is that it has been watered down by the inclusion of too many ancillary subjects and studies that are best left for secondary education, specifically liberal arts majors. Public education needs to get back to basics, as it were, and emphasize acedemics in reading, writing and arithmetic and save the humanities for the college level.

Compounding the problem is a relatively new phenomenom which is a need to make everyone feel good. For instance, a first grader is asked to spell cats. If he/she spells it KATZ, the teacher doesn't mark it wrong and explain why. Instead the teacher lets it go because "that is the way the child sees the word based on the sounds of the alphabet". Of course, this is ludicrous but it is a fact. This type of "feel good" schooling may, for a few years, give the child a boost of self esteem but will ultimately end up producing a very ****y, semi-illiterate.

None of this is a reflection on the teachers themselves as they are, in my belief, making the best with what the system tells them they must do. They are, with few exceptions, dedicted, underpayed professionals charged with one of the most important tasks we have, educating our children, thus ensuring our future as a great nation. Policy makers in Washington and the various state capitols are the ones dreaming up "new and innovative" ideas based on whatever mentality is currently in vougue.

Having contributed a "rant" of my own, let me say that nobody here should be judged or ridiculed for contributing a less than perfectly grammatical post. Lord knows I wouldn't want to be graded. People are here to learn and contribute information about our Ford trucks and it would be a crime if someone were to not contribute their experience and knowledge, for fear of reprisal or ridicule.

Just my .02.

Natty (I'm sure this rant is riddled with errors)

 

I think you were being very loquacious in your allegations made during your discourse concerning the socioeducational spectrum in America today.
(See, I can do it but, who would want to read it?)

When I respond to a post, I try not to 'talk above' the poster. If they are young and enthused, I am young and enthused. If they are old and grizzled, that's me too. Redneck Hillbilly? I reckon so. Wine and Cheese? My forte.

Vocabulary and punctuation have little to do with what someone can 'bring to the table'. It's unfortunate this kind of forum keeps so many away. It takes a brave person, who knows their grammar is poor, to put something out there for all the world to see, even if they are using a pseudonym. Some of the smartest people I know, didn't go much further than the 8th grade.


I admit to a true problem with their/they're and your/you're.
I always see it after I do it. Some kind of mental block going on their.

 

Spelling and incorrect grammar I can live with. I mean, we aren't writing a treatise on solving world hunger here. But I do have a small pet peeve about misusing words. Who here knows the difference between "lose" and "loose?" And know how to use "affect" and "effect" correctly? And "its" and "it's?" "There's" and "theirs?" "You're" and "your?" "Decent" and "descent?" (the last one I blame on the game. I noticed the misuse popping up after the Descent the game got released. )

I notice these errors virtually on every levels of writing I encounter, from casual correspondences all the way up to legal and other technical writings. One of my friends, a highly educated architect who routinely works on multi-million dollar projects, has consistently confused "loose" and "lose" in all levels of writing for the 7 years I have known him. I never point it out to him; I suspect that spell-check isn't too helpful in that regard either.

I think we can only blame the school and the family environment so much. I think we continually educate ourselves as we grow up and grow old. And I find it difficult to believe that a reasonably intelligent person with an average intellectual curiosity could not discover these small errors at some points in his life and fix them.

Alright, this has gone to a rant level, and I apologize. I realize that the world will not end tomorrow because people are using "loose" and "lose" incorrectly. But it's like a wrinkle on your clothes. Wouldn't you want to smooth it out before you go outside? (having said that, I realized that my girlfriend is always on my case about walking around with wrinkled clothes... )

 

Another reality is that often we are judged by what we put on paper. Right or wrong, written discourse has a permanence that verbal communication lacks, and spelling and usage errors imply either laziness or ignorance. Read a few resumes submited to your HR department sometime. It's shocking! It would be hard to hire a network manager who couldn't compose a memo.

I guess I'd be happy if people could just comprehend how and when to use: their/there; your/you're; to/too; its/it's, and the like.

If you're a parent, teach language skills by setting a good example: do your children ever see YOU reading? Do you read to them? Do you gently correct their language mistakes? Do you play word games with them? Do you challenge their vocabulary skills? Kids absorb a tremendous amount of language "information" just by hearing the language used (properly, we hope). You don't need to know a lot of "rules" to write well; a great deal is intuition or "feel" developed in childhood.

 

Dennis,

"but parents don't really care these days. They don't insist that their kids read books. "

I am sure that you mean some parents...

I don't make my kids read books at night. My wife has ensured that, she taught them to love books... and they read them at night, in the car (when they are not playing gameboy) and any other time they are idle.

All I have to do is buy them.

John

 

chaean,
speaking of pet peeves, mine is about a certain cuss word, or words, however you classify, and I hear this a lot.
"Son of a b****es", supposedly the plural of "Son of a b***h"
This is not, "Son of a b****es" implies that there is one son of many b****es, and that's not possible. There can only be one mother, even if she is a b****. It should be "Sons of a b****" or "Sons of b****es", or, as ever popular in the south,
"Sum-B****es". That works better for everyone.

 

< I think you were being very loquacious in your allegations made during your discourse concerning the socioeducational spectrum in America today.> (snipped)

To be concise, I agree. :-)

Natty

 

Pickup Man,

They don't have to be brothers and therefore there can be more than one bi+ch. So the proper nomenclature would be "Sons of Bi+ches" or "Sons a Bi+ches" which the prior would be perfectly good grammar, multiple men each the son of a different bi+ch. However you are correct if they are brothers, "Sons of a B-+ch".

Now, anyone have anything else to add to this lesson?

 

I can tell you one thing, it is amazing in the construction industry how many drawings have notes that are typed out wrong. I have seen many in my days (Almost 3 years now).
I for one, can't relie on spell check for the sole purpose that most or almost all construction terms aren't in the spell check dictionary. That is why I always try and go back and catch anything that I might have mis-spelled, either on drawings or on a post here.
I graduated from technical school with many kids that couldn't even write a sentence, let alone spell words correctly.
I can see Dennis's point that "some" parents don't care what their kids do, but I for one care about what my fiance's two year old does. I will see that the eduaction system doesn't fail him, and that I don't fail him either.
You also have to remember that some people have problems writing things out. A friend of mine is so mechanically sharp, that he re-builds Power Stroke diesels for a living, but yet when it comes for him to write a letter, he just can't do it with out struggling. I don't give him heck for not being able to write, you just learn to bear with it, and eventually you figure out just what he was writing about.
Yes, I know my post goes both ways, but I see it both ways as well, too bad that there aren't more people out there to help the people having the problems....I for one try and help out the best that I can.
Ok, stepping of my soapbox now........

 

I am guilty of misspellings and improper grammar. I apologize.

I realize that what I write here reflects on me as a person. If I could speak instead of write I think people would get a different impression. I would guess this applies to many of us.

I do the best I can to be as accurate as I can, without loosing my train of thought or taking hours thumbing through the dictionary.

So I'm not so strong at spelling and grammar or typing for that matter. I'm not dumb. I know what I mean, and I think most will get the gist.

If there were a spell check here I would use it. There is not though so please bear with me and the others who's stronger points don't include spelling and grammar.

Tom

 

I am sorry guys, but those excuses just don't work here... if you are here you must be perfect, no spelling errors, no typos.....after all, you must be smart enough to do that, you chose a Ford didn't you????

 

If it's a single A-hole, then it's more grammatically correct to say:

Son of a B!tch.

If it's two or more brothers with the same mother who are A-holes, then it's:

Sons of a B!tch.

If it's two or more boys/men who have more than one mother between them, then it's:

Sons of B!tches.

Hope this helps.

 

Of course! If I had meant otherwise, I would have said "all parents." Sometimes I leave things a little less specific and this was one of those cases.

 

Yes! Yes! Yes! Exactly my point why it's uncool to criticize people for their spelling and grammar on boards like this.

This isn't a board dedicated to proper grammar usage and spelling.

So long as the poster can get his or her point across it's fine with me. Nobody should care about another person's spelling and grammar on this board. This is not a class. This is not a place of business where our spelling and grammar is important.

BTW, I think those of us who feel as Natty does should put all those who choose to criticize others for their spelling and grammar on notice. If they criticize, then we'll criticize them right back!

 

Americans discussing grammar??????????? This is not believed to be your national subject, at least not in England.
My gripe is that those who designed keyboards think that only ladies type. Many gentlemen (myself included) find that concentration is needed in order to hit one key at a time.
It is in very poor taste to use these boards to be critical of poor spelling and grammar, which in my experience does not always indicate shallow intelect. There may now be members who are reluctant to participate for fear of being ridiculed. Very sad!