According to this morning's news the investigators believe some turbulence from a 747 caused the aircraft to shake violently, whereas the tailsection broke off. This inturn caused the first, then second engine to break off. The aircraft then began to spin and nosedive into the ground. I believe they said earlier this week the plane was only in the air for less than two minutes. Still leaning towards "accident". (I guess I want to believe it was'nt terrorist related, IMO) ennis :-) : --8

 

there some definite truth to the fact that "flutter" can cause a plane to come apart. that is when a high freq. vibration basically shakes the thing to death.
most rc modelers know about this. many times you can actually hear it on an rc plane, when it occurs.

 

98Screamer,

This is fun...

But why oh why is it only okay to have an opinion when you have enough information and not when anyone else thinks they have enough information to form an opinion? Unless of course they agree with you????

The point is, one of the greatest things about America is the freedom to form and express your own opinion about whatever you want, whenever you want, to whomever you want on whatever little information you have/desire...

Is it becoming clearer?????

 

Just heard on CNN Live that investigator's have determined that the tail breaking away from the airbus fuselage could not have been from turbulence nor from wind or any other normal wind forces in the conditions it was flying.

Now what..........I guess we now have to determine what did break the stabilizer off and go from there.

For those of us who think terrorist were involved with this crash, you are probably thinking you were right now eventhough no one knows for sure how the tail fin broke away.

God Bless all the souls who died in that crash, except any a$$hole terrorist who might have been on board or maybe some collaborator(s).

For those who think we should not fear that terrorist were involved with this crash and it was only an accident, think about this.

The day after the WTC disaster, a teacher at a local high school in NY City came forward and said that one of the students told the class "See the WTC towers" everyone said yes, "They will be gone tomorrow" everyone raised their eyebrows and said, no way man and nothing else was said about it. If the persons in that class would have taken a more proactive stance, we may have drastically reduced the loss of human life on Sept., 11. This story is not a quote but just what I recall from the news the day after the WTC event of Sept 11.

IMO, that is why we should not dismiss any terrorist attack that caused the air bus to crash recently. However, I also agree that we should not blame each and every little thing on terrorism, but to use our brains and go with our instincts when it is called for.

I say the investigation of the airbus crash is a must, let's just don't let pure objectivity effect our gut insitncts. Most of usknow when something stinks and to me this whole crash and when and where it happened, stinks and is just too suspicious.

DaveMan

 

Did I ever say everyone had to agree with me? Sheez. We all have opinions, and they all stink Later, man,,,,,98

 

We should let the investigators figure this out. The vast majority of major plane wrecks "shouldn't have happened". Remember the Stealth fighter that came apart in mid air? Regardless of the outcome, he's my rant.

Some of you have lost already. You're letting some scumbag terrorist acts get into your head enough to start creating your own theories and judgements. If this was based on first hand knowledge or professional opinion, it might have merit. But, it's not. It's based on fear, paranoia, and conspiricy theories. In short, you have a little too much Osama on the brain.

For those of you that the above applies to, go ahead and wave a white flag. Contact Osama and let him start telling you what to wear, how to grow your beard, how to practice his religion, and anything else he may choose to dictate to you, even though he doesn't practice what he helps to force on others.



For the rest of you, here's a quote from a print my Dad has framed in red, white, and blue. Simple words next to a flag.

"To be born a free man is a privilege,
To live one a responsibility,
To die one an honor"

The above is the reason the rest of use won't be defeated.


As a side note to all, do you really think these scumbags AREN'T scared? Let's face facts, would you sleep well at night knowing the most highly trained military operatives in the world are hunting your butt?

Having dealt first hand with the military special operations community, let me explain one point. One of the primary reasons for having such specialized units is psychological warfare. We don't train the best snipers in the world to go shoot random targets. We train them to be the best in the world so they are capable of eliminating specific targets. With stealth, precision, and deadly effectiveness. The targets are the leadership.

These factors apply to many military groups and civilian agencies both U.S. and Allied countries. They are designed to accomplish specific tasks, and they are very good at it. Anyone want to guess what one of the primary missions of the CIA was initially?

It is not the fact that they are so capable that is their strength. It is the fact that scumbags all over the world are AWARE they are so capable, and that the wrong actions will put you on a list you don't want to be on.

They aren't the only ones playing the psychological card.

So, in closing, I'm going to go about my life regardless of why it happened. I've spent my time in the military and I know there are tens of thousands that will follow.

Osama, you're screwed.

 

signmaster,

You say "Some of you have lost already. You're letting some scumbag terrorist acts get into your head enough to start creating your own theories and judgements."

I guess you think you know each and every one of us well enough to make that statement...

Just because someone has the opinion that the crash was terrorist related, doesn't mean they've lost... doesn't mean a scumbag terrorist has gotten into their head.

Did you ever think that they might be facing reality? We are at war in the Middle East... wake up.... if all opinions were based on first hand knowledge or professional opinion, many would not be allowed to have an opinion.

Once again... it is okay to have an opinion, as long as it is the same as yours... right? You have an opinion, based not on first hand or professional opinion... that you don't believe anything until the investigators figure it out... how is it that? "Vast majority shouldn't have happened".. that isn't first hand, yet you apply it?

Then, once they figure it out, the debate will be whether the government is lying..... shall we wait for the facts? If so, will it resemble the JFK files? Say, 30-40 years from now we'll see them?

I think people are entitled to their own opinions and you and no one else can determine why... nor declare that because of it they are "running scared of Osama"....

Peace........

 

I agree - we all are entitled to our opinions & we should feel free to voice them here. If we can't well, then we HAVE lost!
I don't think that by feeling this was terrorist related we are waving a white flag or have given in. The biggest white flag for me was the way the "authorities" seemed to rush to their judgement it was probably an accident! They may have intended this to be a reassurance for us but after 9/11 it is difficult at best to feel reassured about much! I am especially concerned with ALL the MAJOR security breeches in airport security lately - stuff STILL CAN happen - it STILL IS happening!
The saying you quoted signmaster is not just beautiful but oh so true! I would die for my country - no hesitation at all. By feeling that an animal like Osama can "reach" us, in light of what happened 9/11 is not paranoia though - it's the harsh reality of a wake up call we never ordered & didn't deserve. The reaction to 9/11 is the BEAUTIFUL response to that harsh reality we faced & started to overcome the minute the first plane hit! It wasn't just NYC that sprang to action - they wouldn't have had much of a choice would they? They HAD to act. It was how the rest of this country & this world reacted & is still reacting that proves we are not giving up or being paranoid - the whole world shared our grief & our sense of danger.
I think that, because of what has gone on in the last 8 weeks we all need to stop for just a moment before we set our minds too firmly 1 way or another. If we jump to conclusions, we just may miss something that could prove to be very vital to our safety & well being.
Now that I have rambled on, can we PLEASE all shake hands & have a group hug? Come on guys - we're bigger than this!

 

When I first heard about the crash, my first thought was TERRORISTS. I never would have thought that prior to 9/11.

As the details of the crash became known, I was more and more certain that it was a mechanical problem.

Now, it turns out that the tail fin which is of composite construction (fiber reinforced plastic), has a history of problems. Even before it left the Airbus factory, it had to go back for reinforcing because of delamination. The plane was also involved in another incident of air turbulence that was so bad that it injured passengers. Now, this plane hits turbulence again and the tail comes off.

My money is on a mechanical failure of the plastic tail fin.

BTW, I refuse to fly on any Airbus for a couple of reasons. One is I don't trust it. Two is it's not made in America and it's subsidized by the European countries to bust Boeing. I think it's un-American to fly on the Airbus.

 

Terrorists don't have to do anything anymore. We are so afraid of our own body odor that we can't even live out our lives. Forget everything that happened and move on. If you don't, the terrorists have already won.

P.S. I think it was an accident.

 

To move on means forgetting the roughly 5,600 murdered victims from 9/11 - I can't do that sidewalk. I don't even want to - they didn't do a darn thing wrong that day but board a plane or go to work.
I am not letting this change my way of life at all - I refuse to cower in fear but if being aware, if not wanting to just sweep the latest plane crash under the rug seems that way then so be it. Don't forget - we DID have our guard down on the morning of 9/11 & look at the results. I will always err on the side of caution - NOT paranoia, if it means saving even 1 life. I am sure the survivors of 9/11, the families who lost a loved 1 & the rescue workers who have seen the most horrible, unimaginable sights such as body parts can't move on either & also prefer to apply cautiion to future circumstances.
I didn't know this till I checked a site that sorts out rumors from truth - www.snopes.com. Did you guys know that a stewardess was found in the WTC rubble with her hands bound together by a nylon tie/handcuffs? There were also several pairs of hands found in the rubble, all bound the same way. This is a TRUE fact - not a myth, not a hoax like the Tourist Guy pic. This DID happen! It COULD happen again.
Parting thought - wanna know what I think is a MAJOR problem for us as Americans? We cannot think on terms like these animals! We CAN'T EVEN BEGIN to dream up actions such as these! We find it impossible to "predict" or imagine their next step because we are NOT low lifes! We just plain don't understand them, even after they gave us an excellent example on 9/11. They planned this for YEARS - it wasn't an act of passion, a moment of temporary or even permanent insanity! That's the ONLY area where they have the upper hand so if I need to be extra cautious or a bit unwilling to "accept" what happens I will - it's my way of keeping MY upper hand - to be alert & keep my guard up. I think that's known as self preservation. It is for me. No I am not packing a weapon but I sure can't fall back into the "fairy tale" mentality - "& they (we) lived happily ever after".
BTW - I am still not mad & I am STILL waiting for that group hug!

 

Cowlady,

I really don't see a reason for a group hug.... this is just a simple issue of expression of opinion. Some have expressed an opinion and some have expressed an opinion and/or attacked someone else opinion.

I don't think there's a whole lot of respect for people's opinions in this thread.....

 

Hey Cowlady,

You are wasting your time, if someone doesn't know to watch their back now, then let them get hit in the head while they play the fool. If those brave souls on that plane that crashed in Pennsylvania would not have reacted to their gut instincts then there's no telling what other damage could have been done. The guys that say lets wait and find out what's going on here would have their throats cut and the plane could have made it to the capitol.

I only think about terrorist once or twice a day but not more. I have my life to live and I also have my opinion just like others. To me, stating that your opinion is whatever the authorities have already stated is no opinion but just going with whatever is the easiest without having to strain your brain to think.

Any one can say, I with this fact or that fact that some investigation has uncovered. The real interest to me is to see everyone’s views as no one really knows ****. Each and everyone one of us just has a belief, that's it. No one on this planet can prove anything beyond a shadow of doubt 100% exactly what happened to that airbus and no one ever will, except the all mighty. The rest of us are just guessing. No amount of Engineering, research, investigation or theories is going to unfold exactly what took place that fateful day. However, one real good source of insight would be to talk to one of the passengers, a pilot or flight attendant, and then maybe we could find out nearly what happened but not exactly the precise events blow by blow.

There are some folks that even if they had their heads hanging out of the window with one eye on an engine and one on the tail fin they would say, well I'm not really sure what happened, we need to wait until there's been an investigation but it looked like there's and engine gone and the tail blew off, that's all I know. Also, looks like we are going to crash and die, oh well need to wait and put my head between my legs and kiss my$$ goodbye after we hit the ground so I know I'm not being paranoid or wasting any effort ‘cause the plane might be able to recover with no engines or tail fin, you never know.

Okay, I've vented a little. I do think that no one can prove whatever is found was not tampered with prior to the flight.

Prior to 911, I would not have given a second thought about terrorism, however now I look, evaluate, think, ponder, rationalize and then react 'cause that's all the time a terrorist bastard is gonna give you before he chops your frigin head off unless you get to his a$$ first.

I'm not paranoid, I'm just ready. Ask any soldier fighting over in wrag head country if he's paranoid for carrying a gun, he'll probably shoot you just for asking. So what's the difference over here, we are at war too except with a freaking invisible enemy that has moles infested into our population.

Final statement:
Be cautious, think before you decide, watch your six, finally react when the time comes or else.

DaveMan

 

Congrats Daveman for sinking to a new low in your latest post. To somehow imply that those of us who would take the time to figure out what happened in one particular case would have sat back and done nothing in a completly different case is a new low. Two different events and situations. Yes, both air disasters, but in two completely different forms. Not even remotely comparable, if you ask me. In one case, terrorists hijacked the plane, people were able to make phone calls, etc, and decide a course of action, that was ultimately heroic and probably saved many lives. In the other, the plane encountered two bouts of turbulence on takeoff and then the tail fell off, engines fell off, and the plane crashed within 20 seconds. You tell me if there was time for those on board to form opinions based on known facts in each case.

I have stated many times, and I will state again, my opinion is this was not a terrorist incident. That is not regurgitating only what the authorities have told us. It is the opinion formed by countless hours of research and thought that leads me to think this. I've even taken some of what can be substantiated on this forum into consideration. Many times I have also provided information here for people to take a look at. It doesn't bother me that others think differently, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion and provide information to back my opinion to others.

Again, I'm glad that professionals are in charge of investigating the accident, since it is painfully clear that some folks have made their minds up that they know the real cause of the accident. It is exactly that type of thinking that often times causes people to miss the truth that is just waiting for discovery. It is awfully easy to miss that one thing that would answer everything when you won't even admit the possibility that it may be something else. I've said all along that if information pointed to a terrorist connection, I would look at it the same way I have looked at everything else and form an opinion.

Apparently if we can't explain 100% exactly what happened, we don't have any idea what the truth is. I'd be afraid to live in a world where that was always the standard. Hey, terrorists crashed planes into the Pentagon (too often forgotten in my opinion) and the WTC. We don't exactly know 100% of the actions that led to those disasters, so I guess we don't know anything. See the problem in that line of thinking?

Peace...

 

Just to let you know, the word SOME was meant to be just that. I'll address these comments individually, but by no means did I state or imply that ANY Amercian does not have a right to their opinion, regardless of whether it is similar to mine.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by jryager
signmaster,

You say "Some of you have lost already. You're letting some scumbag terrorist acts get into your head enough to start creating your own theories and judgements."

I guess you think you know each and every one of us well enough to make that statement...

Just because someone has the opinion that the crash was terrorist related, doesn't mean they've lost... doesn't mean a scumbag terrorist has gotten into their head.

Did you ever think that they might be facing reality? We are at war in the Middle East... wake up.... if all opinions were based on first hand knowledge or professional opinion, many would not be allowed to have an opinion.

I agree on the opinions, see the above. The fact that some are making conclusions of terrorism to me simply points out that their tactics are working.


Once again... it is okay to have an opinion, as long as it is the same as yours... right? You have an opinion, based not on first hand or professional opinion... that you don't believe anything until the investigators figure it out... how is it that? "Vast majority shouldn't have happened".. that isn't first hand, yet you apply it?


I do in fact have a great deal of first hand information regarding military investigations into flight incidents. I worked in a military communications field, and at one command the flight mishaps of the entire Fleet Marine Force Atlantic came through our comm center. Failures happen, even though often strict programs are in place to ensure they don't. The human factor is the major cause.


Then, once they figure it out, the debate will be whether the government is lying..... shall we wait for the facts? If so, will it resemble the JFK files? Say, 30-40 years from now we'll see them?


I doubt the public will ever now the details on issues much greater than the JFK files. Having worked with nuclear codes and various intel channels, I personally believe that at times witholding information from the public is in the best interest of national security. I've seen first hand the press release information that comes through military channels. I've also seen the highly classified information that isn't very similar to most of the press releases. I'm sure there are versions I never saw that tell an even different story. In this case I agree with you, the public may never know the truth.



I think people are entitled to their own opinions and you and no one else can determine why... nor declare that because of it they are "running scared of Osama"....


I will always agree that everyone has a right to their opinion.

I will stand by my statements that the psychological warfare being conducted by these terrorists is taking a heavy toll on a great number of people. I am not claiming that I dismiss or forget what has happened, nor should anyone else. However, we must accept that what is done is done. Our government is doing what they can to minimize further losses, and for now there is little else that can be done.


Peace........

Right back at ya...