I understand economics very well. I have an MBA and can grasp the concepts.

The reality is that we can "create" scenarios that both raising and lowering taxes in can work either way when it comes to lowering deficits/the debt.

If you can truly heat up the economy and you are manufacturing like crazy...exporting goods in huge quantities and such...have a populous that has a lot of discretionary income...etc...then you could slash taxes very low and their consumption will likely create your goal.

However in reality we make nothing and are a land of mass consumption. The middle class is getting choked out. There is a growing gap between the wealthy and poor. We are moving from a Representative Republic toward becoming more of an Oligarchy.

In this setting, there is no real advantage deficit wise to cut taxes for the wealthy. It is just making them wealthier but the money isn't trickling down. People with money are hoarding it right now.

If you have no manufacturing base, have little to export and import things like crazy, the bubble is going to burst.

We used to be the world's breadbasket, today we are more like the loaf pan.

We have shipped most jobs overseas and only kept the ones that truly have to stay here. People flipping burgers at McDonald's don't make as much as someone building cars.

Our economy has been a service based economy and there just aren't enough services needed to support our labor pool.

So in the end...you can cut taxes, spend everything on the military, let the people starve...oh wait...N Korea already has that model!!!

 

Based on what ? Where do you get these numbers from ?

Oh, I see now, answered my own question..........

It was 70%, and that is what Reagan changed in 1981. The previous administration cranked it up to that rate, to try to pay for the spending that went on.
They figured things the same way the Clinton administration did, if you make it tax them to increase fed receipts.
Thing is, history proved it does not work, JEC report from 1996.

Not millions, just 1.
The amounts above that are taxed at 55% in 2011. This is just at the federal level, state can tax the estate or the inheritance in addition to this.
Hope the late family does not live in a different state, you can pay federal estate tax, state estate tax, and then the person can pay inheritance tax ( usually on all no exemption, but by state ). Can make the tax on the over 1M part start to get to 80%, and the under 1M be at ETR.
sound fair, you made too much, hand 80% of it to us, you are dead and don't need it anymore. Puts a new light on the "You can't take it with you" line, the government makes sure of that.

Sounds like you are all for redistribution of wealth.
This is what happens now, you had it happen to yourself. I see you like this idea, but the amount should be higher. NIMBY mentality, it should be everyone but me....

The thing that gets me, you say the current POTUS needs to go, just because you think he is acting like a republican, but look at what he is going, he is not acting like one....

Will you stop with this pure mis-information rant you are on.
It is not a tax cut, it is raising taxes for the higher ( not just the highest ) income levels.
You keep making it seem as if someone is getting something back, it is a case of taking more.
I know a lot of what you put out as fact is your opinion, but this is a fact that you are presenting into something it is not, in other words a lie.

 

No, you're not encouraging irresponsibility. You're just encouraging the lack of personal responsibility. Wait, let me retract my first statement. You ARE encouraging irresponsibility. When people know they are gonna receive a handout, it makes them feel secure. The know they can turn to the government for financial protection. That means they don't have to be responsible for their own retirement. So, instead of savin' for their retirement, they go out and buy non-necessities. With all the bills they rack up by feelin' secure with a government handout later, of course they can't save very much. Plus, the taxes are already taken out of paychecks. That makes it even harder to save money, 'cause you don't have much to save anymore. Government handouts DO promote irresponsibility, as they don't force people to take care of themselves. This is also true with other socialist programs, such as welfare. They know they're gonna get a check every month from the government, so there's no need to get a job. If they didn't get that check every month, I bet they'd enter the job market pretty quick. You know... 'Cause then they'd be forced to be responsible for their own livlihood, rather than rely on support from the taxpayers.

Also, who the he!! do you think you are sayin' "most people" couldn't save that much? You don't know "most people," so you're paintin' with an awfully broad brush. You don't give people enough credit. You think you know better than most. And because you don't give people enough credit, you think the government needs to take care of them. That's pretty bold of you to put yourself above "most people." I bet put to the task, "most people" could take care of themselves. People did it for many years.


So there's a part of you that's a socialist, is what you're sayin'. I think most of us could already see that. You "guess" they can take their share back? WTF!? You want to level the playin' field to make things fair for everyone, yet, you want to accomplish that by makin' things unfair. Ironic.....

 

How many "unethical wars" can you say you've supported? "Unethical" is word people use to describe wars they don't like simply because it stirs emotion. It's a form of propaganda. Also, there are a lot of people workin' for US contractors who are bustin' their butts many hours a week over there. Many of those people are Americans. They're far from bein' too lazy to work. They're puttin' themselves in a dangerous area to make enough money to support themselves and their families. Others workin' for the US contractors are nationals of that country. Many of them are makin' more money than they ever have to give their families a life they've never had. Seems like you would be the type of person who would support such a thing. It's upliftin' the poor. Or maybe you don't like it, 'cause they're workin' for the money, rather than just havin' it handed to them. I mean... You did say you'd rather give the money to an unemployed person sittin' at home, than to people who are workin' to build in another country.

 

What's your MBA in? You might have been taught economics and know some of the verbage to have a discussion about it, but it doesn't appear that you understand it very well.

There is a growing gap because people don't exercise personal responsiblity like they use to. They don't have to. The government pays for them to live. That decreases motivation and causes more people to just "get by" rather than "thrive." Therefore, the unmotivated become more poor, and the motivated become more wealthy.

Seems like more than just the rich are hoardin' their money now. That's because the government is takin' so much of it, and the government has created an economy that is unstable. People are worried about the future. Those with any money are bein' conservative with it, so they can take care of themselves and their families. You know... Exercisin' personal responsibility. The big advantage for cuttin' taxes for the wealthy is that they are the ones who employ people. When was the last time you worked for a poor person? When the wealthy start holdin' on to their money, they quit creatin' jobs. They may even cut jobs. So if you want people to work, if you want jobs in this country, you need to have people who can afford to employ the people.

This was covered by someone else earlier in the thread. The jobs aren't really bein' "sent" overseas. Companies found it more beneficial to move overseas, because the environment the US goverment created for companies isn't as attractive as the environment overseas. It's expensive to operate here now. It's hard to compete with foreign companies and be successful, if you can't set a competitive price and make decent profits. The purpose of ownin' a business is to make money. As noble as it would be to have a business simply to employ people, that's not the case. Businesses exist to make money. If an acceptable amount of profits aren't made (acceptable is defined by the owner of the business, no one else), the business won't exist. If jobs are to stay in the US or come back to the US, our government is gonna have to ease up some so companies can compete successfully in the global market.

If you cut taxes, people would have more of their own money. That means they wouldn't have to starve. They would be more responsible for themselves....oh wait....you already showed you promote the lack of personal responsibility!!!!

 

Before Obama started baling everyone out the U S had a debt load of $200,000.00 for every man woman and child. It must be at least 50% higher now. Could the economists tell me how a tax cut pays this off?

 

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The current federal debt is $125,000+ per taxpayer, and the unfunded liabilitiess are over $1,011,000 per taxpayer.

That's a total of over $1,135,000 per taxpayer (not including state debts or unfunded liabilities). And it's climbing FAST.

FWIW, lots of the current taxpayers are older and nearing the end or past their peak earning time. Our kids will bear far more than the 'average' cost of $1,135,000 per taxpayer. If your kids expect to be above average wage earners, than there share is larger still.

It fries my cheese that, realistically, my 7 and 9 year old are already in a hole of $2.5 million to the federal government, and probably another few hundred grand to the state of California.

Raise the taxes, cut the taxes, whatever - It's not going to be enough. Drastic, painful spending cuts are the only way to get us out of this hole. The longer we postpone it, the higher the cost and the longer it will take our kids to pay off this debt our politicians imposed on them.

 

I heard an anchor on Fox news say that in order to get around the estate tax, some millionaires are gonna refuse health treatments and time their death as to avoid paying it. Hehehehehe

That shows how PO'd the wealthy are.

That'll teach o'BaMa. Hehehehe

 

Having an MBA doesn't mean you know jack squat about economics or how an entire country works, or what motivates people to work for pay and better their standard of living. I simply do not understand people's perspective that the government's job is to take care of people. We need the government for a few key things and that's it! (Military, Food and Drug Admin., Immigration...) We do not need them take from those that have and giving to those who have no desire to work. How is it even possible that 47% of this country doesnt pay taxes? If I walked down the hall and told our CFO to quit withholding taxes, I would be in jail come my next paycheck. How are people getting away with this?

I have an MBA as well, and as I recall from class, all you learn about economics are broad, sweeping concepts about supply and demand. Not saying you're completely imcompetent, but much of your argument holds no water.

 

What's going to get us out of the hole is people going back to work and that means jobs...and not flippin' burgers either. Good jobs that folks can live a decent on. Since we have a few educated folks in this thread, how come nobody has mentioned what got us in this mess to begin with. Several things and I'm sure I'll miss some but Gov't spending money they didn't have is surely at the top of the list. We the people can do that to a certain extent with credit cards but what happens when this country can make the payments? I'm afraid you're about to find out. Another thing that really pushed our economy over the edge was speculators in the gas and oil business pushed fuel prices to record levels. Those that were living at the outer edges of their income found themselves not being able to buy the gas to get work or do without eating or just not paying any bills. The price of gas today is higher than should be. Again caused by speculators but you don't see the morons in DC stepping up to eliminate it. You also have folks on SSI that don't belong there. My nieces daughter is married to a pretty boy dead beat on SSI. He claims he has Attention Deficit. What his problem is that he figured out how to beat the system and is on a free ride. I also went to school with a guy that was on SSI. His claim to the Gov't was that his dad had died and he was not able to afford college. Hey, my dad was alive and couldn't afford to pay for my college so I gotta job to pay for it. Far too many sob stories- some real, some aren't and our Gov't doesn't seem to care, just hand out the money.
The free rides have to stop. Taxes must be reduced to allow businesses to invest in new technologies and start more expansion to create more jobs. Regulations must be reviewed and any that are just plain stupid need to be eliminated. Gov't needs to get more business friendly. Fair trade needs to mean what is good for the other guy is good for us. A country requires a national as a percentage owner, then we require the same. A country puts a 20% tariff on our goods, they pay a 20% tariff on their goods.
I expect in the near future China will have no choice but to raise the value of their currency. The locals are getting restless and realize that they are working for far too cheap. Same thing is occurring in other countries with cheap labor. The internet has made it possible for those in thrid world nations to see what others are enjoying and how others live. They want the same for themselves and their children. There's a few hiccups we'll have to endure but in the end, I think we'll be better for it.

 

Labnerd,

I agree with a lot of what you say. We do need to get good jobs going. I'm all for it and have no problem giving big tax breaks to companies and individuals that are actually creating jobs here at home. The net benefit is worth it.

That being said, what value does big Wall St speculators add to our economy except for adding to the price we all pay?

We are going to see a crash that is going to make the Great Depression seem like great economic times and it isn't all that far off.

We love the cheap products we import from the third world. The problem is that same cheap labor is being used for everything now. It used to be just cheap trinkets but now most everything we buy is made elsewhere.

 

The problem? Obama supporters or any other dirty libtard. These dolts think that the govt can just give freakin money away to illegal immigrants oozing across the boarder. How does the govt get this money, **** it, we'll tax the rich, oh ****, the rich moved? **** it we'll tax the middle class. oh **** they can't afford to pay their mortgage? **** it, we'll just give them money, then they will be forced to re-elect us cause those evil conservatives wont give them anything. Oh **** huge recession, ****in Bush's fault, if he had just let Hussain (not the president, Saddam) keep making bio-weapons and using them on his own peeps, and keep letting the taliban create, train and stage terrorist attacks from afghanistan we wouldn't be in this mess, he spent way too much money on freedom.

 

The problem is that guys like Saddam and Bin Laden were created by us to begin with. We prop up these bastards and when they bite the hand that feeds them we get pissy. We are getting killed with our own weapons.

I have no issue with us going into Afghanistan and getting Bin Laden and his cronies. We would probably long had him if we didn't get sidetracked and screwed around with Iraq.

In hindsight Iraq had nothing! The time to have gotten Saddam was when we were there the first time. Going back a decade later is asinine. All we have done is made another crazed regime (Iran) stronger. At least Iraq and Iran kind of balanced things out there. Now they are sending insurgents into Iraq like a turnstile. We won't be out of there for generations (or at least now we shouldn't leave) as it is so unstable that the moment we leave, we will have a bigger problem on our hands.

There are crazy leaders all over that are killing their people. It isn't just Saddam. The whack job in N Korea is probably our next one to deal with and many others as well.

If people in these countries are unhappy with their leadership then THEY need to take the action necessary to fix it. We can't afford to be the world's police dept. We have enough problems at home.

 

Really? Seriously? You wrote this????

It's always easy to whip the uneducated into a frenzy.

Fear is the greatest motivator.

It requires no thought.

There is no off button for stupid/fear.

Americans get riled up over lies and fear.

Why not just lie about things?

Lovely countries like Somalia and Haiti are certainly good models for us to follow!

Evening the playing field will solve that.

We can take steps to encourage or force them to keep jobs here.

 

I am guessing when your 401(k) is up, you don't say this.
Same thing as stocks, supply and demand pricing, of course you are a MBA, so you know this...right ?
The oil part is a double stupid comment, as production limits are set by OPEC. Once the supply is limited, what happens when the demand increases ? The price goes up, just like stocks on wall street.
The part about wanting the US gov to do something about it, is akin to the US gov doing something about a price run up on a stock on the CAN stock market.

Really, got some details on this, rather then your opinion presented as a fact ( yet again ). I guess they do not teach the history part to econ in your MBA classes as to what was put in place that caused the lead up to that ( along with the give away programs that are in place now, but not back then ).

You got it, everyone needs to practice some self control and responsibility ( the part you would let them get away with, just to make sure those who need it get it ) in not needing everything for that big house they got and had a 125% loan on.
Who wants to pay 200.00 for a drill, when you can have 3 of them for 45.00 ( let alone did they need it in the 1st place ).

You love these 1 line fear generating tidbits, don't you. I can only assume you are getting them from a weak new source or blog of stupidity, as they have no true foundation in reality.