[QUOTE=wittom;4074057]

I don't know much about the Canadian constitution, but the founding fathers of our country proclaimed that our rights are given to us by our creator. Now, before you try to stereo type me, I'm not a religious guy. I do believe I have a creator though. It's probably not the same as many other Americans, but I agree with our founding fathers that our rights come from our creator. Health care doesn't come from our creator, and is not a right. No more than is food, shelter or a job. If we start calling things rights there will be no end to what some consider "rights". This was know by the people who created the foundation for our country, and they knew that future generations would expand what we considered "rights".

Dude you way out of your mind... While i agree with you on many things this is just horsechite dude. Creator ie: mom/dad. thats it.

 

We are the United States of America. That doesn't mean that every state gives up it's sovereignty in favor of an all powerful federal government. The powers of the federal government were spelled out. The powers not specificly granted to the federal government were assumed by the individual states and by the people. It is each states responsibility to decide how to remove barriers in peoples persuit of life, liberty and happieness.

The federal government has been granted, or taken, too much power by taking advantage of our complacentcy. It's about time we put that power in check. It's about time we took a more active roll in what is happening in our state governments. It is then that we can be a nation, not paying a price but working together, of Americans.

 

But you have no problem with the government funding such things as the Army, Navy, etc.

DISCLAIMER: I'm in no way dissing the honorable men and women of the USA or Canada of dedicating their lives to our safety.

So what's the difference? Aren't THEY protecting those "American's" who don't deserve the same healthcare? What happened to "unitied we stand"?

"WE" as Canucks never stated that YOUR system should be like ours. We are simply defending ours seeing we know what our system is like and if Obama gets his way, you have yet to see what yours would be like.


So who "controls" the cost of anything to do with healthcare in the US? Doesn't the Government have any say in controling costs?

Yes, and we all know where that "intuition" got the US in the past couple of years. Let's see, bailouts, market crash, bankruptcy......

 

Well, our Constitution was formed with the intent of providing for the common defense. It is also to promote the general welfare, but if you believe that that means health care for all, I suggest you compare the definitions of provide and promote.



I think that it's great that the people in your contry are happy with your health care system. I can understand you defense of it. A clear majority of American citizens have made it abundantly clear that we do not want the current administrations health care reform. If Obama get's his way, it will be at the expense of our Constitution.



Currently the government has a fair amount of "control" of health care costs. It should be, for the most part, the consumer who has the most control of the costs of anything. Supply and demand. If the people in this country were more involved in the payment part of their health care, be it out of their own pocket, or managing a budget through health insurance, we would have much more control over what things to do with health care cost.



If you would read, and comprehend, what I said, I wasn't referring to banks or mortgage lenders, or the fed, or politicians who said that the housing market was stable when it was on the verge of collapse. It isn't these institutions that provide us with cost effective cell phone plans, broadband rates, cable television packages, auto insurance, and what ever else we spend our money on. It's people choosing for themselves what works best for them. If you read and comprehended what I said, you would see that what I said is that if WE ALL, meaning the American people, used the financial intuition that we use in all of our other financial decisions and applied them to our health care decisions, we could lower the costs. We don't need a bail out or any other government intervention.

 

I see your point that we're "all in it together", but I don't agree with it. I have no problem helping those who are trying to help themselves. It's kind of like, love thy neighbor, but the guy down the street is on his own.

If I had my say, not a single dollar of my tax money would go to support the drug addicted, single mother of 4 (from 4 dads) who's knocked up again, sitting at home watching Cops or Springer. That is of course unless the money was being used to take her kids away, having her tubes tied and entering her in rehab with a work release program, but that'd probably be considered cruel or unusual punishment.

The fact that one is in the United States of America at all puts them in the position to make something of themselves. If they fail because they're too poor/lazy/unemployed/whatever, then TS. If someone needs to be taken care of by a gov't, there are plenty of socialized countries to choose from. Quit being dead weight in my country.

- NCSU

 

you guys should look up the "second bill of rights" from back in the day. (i think fdr?) its a progressives dream!

 

Government run health care is a joke. I don't care if you Canadians like yours. Thats fine. But there is no way that a sane and coherent person can argue that Canada has the same quality health care when they have premiers coming to America for treatment. I listen to a lot of talk radio, and constantly, there are Canadians calling in complaining about there health care. British guests who are urging America not to go to a nationalized system in hopes that there will be one last great health provider.

What you Canadians and stupid brain dead obamabots don't understand is that there is currently a governement run health care system in America, its called medicade and medicare. These programs are for the poor and underprivilaged along with the elderly. These systems are already here and they are ALREADY BANKRUPT. The largest defalter on payments to physicians is medicad, the hardest insurer to get paid by is the government. And some of you people will think its going to get better? Get better like Amtrack? or the USPS? these are jokes of the government run programs down here. And there is no such thing as opting out. If they raise taxes to pay for lazy slobs with no jobs, its redistribution of wealth.

The two things that cause health care to be so expensive now is R&D and unpaid medical claims. for every procedure that doesn't get paid for, someone else paid double. Just ask Californians, they're economy is broke, and I would be surprised to find any that don't blame a large chunk of that on there state run medicade. Chairman Maobama says he is going to lower health care costs. Well we all no its not going be paying medical claims, not only do they not do that now, but they are going to become responsible for medical claims. So, what has to go? Thats right R&D.

There is no way that anyone can claim that the care under obamacare will be sufficient to what it is now, you can't add 50 million patients to the network, and not ad a single doctor and then claim coverage and quality are going to be the same. obama must think we are stupid, and he would probably be right for about everysingle person who voted for him. I get we would need to add doctors, but here in the USA we cannot MAKE people be doctors, and when the government sets the prices that physicians can charge for treatments, handcuffing the doctors ability to make money, people are going to stop raking up a 1/4 million dollars in tutiton bills. So obama and is cronies will fix everything again, be A) lowering the cost of medial school, ie, lower the quality, or B) covering the cost of medical school, ie, bankrupting us even more.

All in all our economy is fing screwed right now, and stupid obama needs to be cutting government costs not quintupling them. He needs to be cutting the naitonal debt not adding. he is ruining our country right in front of everyone and getting a total pass, and it sickens me that my children will not be giving one tenth of the opportunites that I hve because of this pond scum.

 

- ncsu

 

Americans wanted change... You got it. Change is great until it effects you. Anyone think there will be a second term? The U S will remember obama for centuries as they pay off the dept he created.

 

You are out of touch if you really believe Obama has "created" any new debt. It would look a lot worse if he let the economy collapse. He's actually being very fiscally conservative considering the challenges he was dealt.

 

LOL!!!!!!!! That's the funniest load of crap I've read in weeks Real! Thanks for the laugh!

 

Wasn't it Bush who "kept the economy from collapse"? TARP?

I know that the Constitution and the founding fathers are probably irrelevent to you, because you may believe that our constitution is a living, breathing document, but the change people were voting for in '08 was to bring us back to these principals. Instead Obama has accelerated the out of control spending. You fawn over him for it. You cheer for the demise of our country so that you can take part in rebuilding it to be a progressive society. A majority of our country doesn't share your vision.

Perhaps the health care reform that this administration is attempting to jam down our throats won't be the one factor that leads to the demise of our country. That's why you are advocating on several fronts. Overwhelm the system.

 

Whole lot of stupid in this thread too...

I hear the same whining in this thread as I did reading this passage written a long long time ago as a warning of what would come when the people wanted a stronger government.


10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle [b] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen.

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles."

 

Super, you are the man. The Israelites got their wants and more than they bargained for. Instead of following the Lord, they followed a man and paid the price. Very appropriate for this thread.

 

geat guys now all the christian bashers are gonna flame this thread