I'm for banning golf clubs ,baseball bats ,rolling pins. all of these have beenuse to kill people . Why do we support guns? because it's are second amendment right . How many more of your rights do you qwant to give up? give up one they'll take more.

 

See my previous post...tell me, what wa the exteme circumstance---is cheating on your wife an "extreme circumstance"?

TSC

 

referee54,

First I hope you know I have much respect for you and your view points. I also hope you take my post with a gain of salt in that they are not directly addressed to you. I do believe all people, well the vast majority of people are good people. I also believe there is a segment of our population that just have the wrong values because they were not properly educated, at least not a complete education which has not been possible for at least the last 30 years or so due to poor public schools…

In any regards Chris1450 made some very good points, and I am inserting his quote here because this is basically what I am talking about:

Now, this does not mean its purely and only liberals fault, but I do put most of the blame on them and their sadly lacking ability to think things completely through. You bring up some good points and I absolutely agree with you, even the Newt and getting divorced I absolutely agree with because its that type of behavior that instills the thought, if it feels right just do it, screw it…

However, our big problem now is we have, who is suppose to be a leader, ready to make all the same mistakes that has led this society into a bad situation.

Just the other day this idiot tried to put Europe on the same level we are in America. Europe is not and has not been for many decades on the same level as America. Europe has been very weak as a contributor to the world in general. Europe can not make it on their own and they depend solely on America for their well being and existence. On the other hand we do not need Europe to survive. We have always had to play the role as leader because there are no leaders left on the world stage, so for this President of ours to put us on the same level as the weak nations in Europe, other then Britain, is beyond me but does play into the general liberal belief we are all equal.

We are not, nor will ever be all equal, if we were the world would fall into a serious threat of human survival. Europe is full on this illogical thought process of liberalism. Even the original poster has fallen into the grasp of illogical thought and completely has no idea of history past the last 50 years.

Guns are a means to an end and let me try to give the best explanation I can:

Freedom is not free, to be free means to not only be willing to sacrifice ones life, but to insure you instill the fear of God into anyone who may try to take that freedom.

That means for a nation, as America, to possess the means to annihilate any foe who may try to take that freedom. It means for citizens, such as American citizens, as a whole to possess the means to annihilate their government if need be to maintain their freedom. That is exactly why are forefathers put the second amendment into the Constitution, so our government will so fear us as citizens they would not ever think about taking our freedom away. While I did serve my country in the military and understood the risk in protecting my country I would not hesitate to take what ever action may be needed to insure MY freedoms are not taking away by my government, it is my God given right as provided by MY countries Constitution.

Perhaps the original poster needs to look back in history more then 50 years, Hitler would be a good name to Google and see what happens when a few people brainwash the masses that they only mean well and thoughts should count. That succeeded real well and Europe closed their eyes to it for the most part because they were very weak then as well…

 

If the year was 1950 I would agree, but it's 2009, so I disagree. I know too many very conservative, Republican voting, non smoking, non drinking, non movie going, non dancing, non drinking, gun toting Baptist's that married their childhood sweetheart's that are divorced.

 

As an englishman than has lived or worked all over including in the states id like to throw my two peneth into this.

Now i'm neither pro or anti gun, before i start getting shot down, excuse the pun.

As previously stated here the UK has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. I cant show you any stats but i would assume we also have one of the lowest gun crime per head levels too. That to me is great. As also stated though all it means is the English nutters use weapons other than guns the majority of the time. The biggest social problem in the UK is kids carrying knives. around 6 months ago in london 6-7 young lads were stabbed in seperate incidents within 2-3 weeks. and they were just the ones that made the news.

id like to put a few views forward for discussion, As said before im neither pro or anti gun.


Ok, firstly im going to take the fact that the UK police are not armed. The feeling tends to be that if the police were to be armed, trust me it comes up often after 9/11 and 7/7 in london, that if the criminals know the policeman responding is armed he will arm himself suitably ie gun for a gun and not bring a knife to a gun fight as the phrase goes.
The feeling in my generation possibly comes from Ireland and the IRA problems. Police/soldiers were always armed and that never solved the problems and some would argue made it worse.

Again though both of the above are as said here many times the idiots with guns not the sensible licensed holders.

I personally have used and carried guns on a regular basis being ex HM forces and have a healthy respect for them and completely understand why some people have the need to have one. I think somebody before said about some of the more remote spots in america. Your gun is your safety. Personally i couldn't agree more. I also whole heartedly agree with sports shooting/hunting.


overall like i say im neither pro nor anti i see both sides. ive been there with rifle in hand gripping the handle and loving the feeling of safety it gave me and the young lad beating in the woods on the hunt. But i still dont personally feel the need to own a shotgun (still UK legal). However if i knew everybody else had 1 i might?!?


I think its an argument that will never be settled. Banning hand guns in the UK worked because we are so much smaller and to be honest guns are not a large part of our culture. The states is different completely, and always has been.


As hopefully ive pointed out im not not trying to say ban or keep guns, just say how i see things with the hope of encouraging grown up conversation.

Cheers

 

i dont like what guns and people together have done.

i dont keep a gun at my house.
#1 I have small kids and dont want the risk of them getting injured or killed. my son, 12, has a shot gun and a .270 that we shoot from time to time and we dear hunt a little. if i were to put them away under lock and key, then this helps me in no way to protect my family in a home invasion. no way i make it to the gun unlock, load before this guy get to my wife or kids.

#2 I dont want the government to mess with current laws , seem like every time thet try to do good, they make things worse.

#3 i firmy believe, that a self defense coarse and course on personal safety does me , my wife and my kids a world of good. think about it, are kids kidnapped when they are with you or without you. Are women robbed or raped when a man is around? if your familey safety is the reason why you have a gun in the bedroom, den, garage, car and a closest full, surely you have considered that are in the most danger when you are not around.

not a big gun fan, but they have there place. i just always wonder how that 99.99999999% of the population will react when the chit hits the fan and they have to release the safety and think about pulling the trigger on someone.

 

I don't like what beer and people and cars have done. We should outlaw alcohol and cars. The combination kills over 10,000 people per year.

 

See the stupid shipping container thread.

You can find arguements to ban just about everything.....most deaths other than by gun crime are a result of our own society and the choices we have made in a developing world.
Most other 'deaths' come from what we have designated as necessary facets of our lives.
Guns are just not necessary, and kill un necessarily.

In a well regulated society guns can exist for sporting pleasure. Your society just has not regulated guns well enough.
Why can't you face up to the facts?

 

Fact is, we don't want to be fish in a barrel for some guy who obtains a gun illegally and goes on a shooting rampage. If you aren't interested in protecting yourself or your family or anyone around you, well, that's your right, stand down and die crying if you want. This is America, that's your right. But, it's also our right to have weapons, because we are not going to lie down and die like dogs because some idiot decides it's our time to go. That is OUR right, so while we do respect yours, please respect ours.
I will not die crying like a b**ch or watch my family get hurt when I can take care of the situation with my P-97DC at my side.
Don't want one? Don't buy one. I don't want to be an easy unarmed target for a maniac, so I will.

 

I hate what the wackos do all over the World, as well as here in the States. Yes guns are a tool used in crime, and hate violence. Maybe some of the people should be evaluated, when they don't fit into society. I venture to guess, that the same people that would shoot in a building full of people have had other run ins with the law, just as the guy in New York. According to the article, everyone that spoke about the man, spoke of his problems. He needed help. The rage and anger killed those people. The gun was the tool to do it with.
I could make a crude gun in my workshop. Simply because I have the tools. When gun manufacturing was regulated in Germany between the World Wars, they simply made them in smaller machine shops. I will inherit a shotgun that was made in Germany during the 1920's, when it was illegal to produce them.

I'm not a hunter either, but if my Family gets hungry, there will be food on my table.

 

Last I heard, there is still gun crimes in england... and canada. There are very strict gun control laws there. explain that one?

 

True, but a small fraction of what occurs Stateside.

And these are almost certainly guns that have found their way from....guess where !!?

 

guess where? hmmm.... illegal gun owners! It doesn't matter where they get them. The FACT is that criminals with guns from where ever are emboldend by knowing there victom is not armed. That is not even arguable.

 

Ohhh boo fking hoo. You know what, if ALL the guns in America somehow disappeared, guess what, they (your 'bad people') would get JUST as many guns from somewhere else and shoot everything up. You might as well be bishing about gun control for the whole world since your on the subject.
It doesnt matter what you do, if someone wants a gun they are going to get one anyway. Its the same with anything.
There are speed limits arent there? If people want to speed they are damn well going to speed. Remember prohibition? Yeah, that worked just great didnt it. Its all the same thing! If people want something, they are going to do/get it!

Even by BANNING guns, there are still going to be people with them. Its been said 100 times before in this thread...would you rather lay down like a bish and beg for you life at the mercy of some punk's index finger because you cant even protect yourself (serious, what are YOU going to do when you have a gun at your face? Talk to him?? Hit him with a stick while he laughs and puts one through your cranium?) , or would you rather be able to protect yourself and even save OTHER peoples lives by taking care of the problem...easily done if you can even out the playing field by having a gun. Just the thought of other people having a gun and fighting back can be enough to make a criminal think twice about what they are going to do.

 

Gun control comes down to more government control! The American People are losing more and more freedom with every piece of legislation that is being pushed through congress! Once the right to bear arms has been removed from the constitution or nullified through extreme gun control all of the other freedoms that Americans take for granted will fall to the wayside. I hate the fact that the government (local and federal) is so willing to step in and save the day in the name of public safety.

Who am I hurting legally owning and carrying a firearm? Who am I hurting not wearing a seatbelt? Who am I hurting smoking a cigarette? Who am I hurting reading a porno mag? Who am I hurting eating a super greasy gnarly fat burger? Who I am I hurting when I swear? etc. etc. etc.

The answer is I am possibly hurting (corrupting) myself and anyone in my vicinity by doing what I want to do???

When I am in a situation where I am not comfortable I get away from it! I can walk away from a guy that farted, but I cannot just turn my back and walk away when someone has a gun pointed at me!

You need to walk away if you do not like the fact that America is armed and free!

I will not give up my guns, my tobacco, my porno or my lard burger, or any other freedom I take for granted just so some liberal can sleep better at night knowing that his or her kids are safe in the hands of communism.

Tax away liberals!

Sorry for GLENN BECKing! hahaha