When you drink, don't park. Accidents cause people.... sorry for the hijack.

 

This is one of the most idiotic post I have seen in a long time and its not to stir the pot or meant for rational discussion…

NO, guns do NOT kill, cars do NOT kill, bats do NOT kill, knifes do NOT kill, only people KILL. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

You could pass a law right now to completely ban all guns and guess what, MORE people would die from guns then the few that die now. Why, because those who want them to kill can get them anywhere, anytime they want them. Those who want to use guns to kill do not follow laws or logic, like the original poster has no logic and unable to completely think his statements out.

He is acting on emotion rather then logic. The other very important reason our founders put the second amendment into the Constitution was so our government could not take over the people. There is a lot more of us then those in Washington and if need be we can use or guns to take back our country.

Not many people like to talk about that, or accept that as a fact but that is the MAIN reason we have the second amendment and the right to own guns. Make fun of it all you want but guns are here to stay so get over your self righteous self.

A very simple thing can happen that will help with the vast majority of issues with guns and that is for the idiots in Washington to actually enforce the laws on the books.

Guns are not, and have never been an issue or problem. People have always been the issue and problem, most specifically elected officials like those in Washington who continue to create the issues and problems as is Lord Obama and his flag burning and Constitutional ignoring disciples.

If you truly want to greatly curb gun deaths and crimes then outlaw liberals and their irrational thinking and you will be on your way to a much safer and morally correct society and world…

So you see my friend, it has nothing to do with guns, but everything to do with liberals and their manipulation of morals and values. Before they were prominent there was not many issues with crime, and specifically not many issues with guns…

I have a gun and if someone attempts in any way to hurt my family I will use it to stop them and possibly kill them, why, because it is my right…

 

Well Lenticular, you apparently have lived in Texas a while to list yourself as living here. When are you going to learn that Texans could care less what you think. We carry guns. We use guns to defend our properties. Don't like it, you can leave on the first bus in any direction. We won't miss you.

 

So you see my friend, it has nothing to do with guns, but everything to do with liberals and their manipulation of morals and values. Before they were prominent there was not many issues with crime, and specifically not many issues with guns…

You always blame the libs---always---you always place blame on the libs...you generalize way too much. While I have hunted a great deal (deer, pheasant, duck, quail, rabbit, fox, squirrel), and own firearms, and really enjoy trap and skeet shooting, (kinda blows your mind that a stinkin' liberal would do that, doesn't it?), tell me---what do these mass murderers have to do with liberals and manipulation of morals and values?

David Whitman---an Eagle Scout---1966 University of Texas Bell Tower This took place during a much more conservative era.

Son of Sam---David Berkowitz---was told by a neighbor's dog (Satan) to kill (Maybe a very liberal dog, at that.) The guy was neither conservative or liberal---he was just down right loony. How did the liberals' manipulation of morals and values affect his killing spree? I mean, the guy was crazy. Crazy people have existed forever; they have killed in large numbers forever, too.

Columbine killings---1999--school kids that did the shootings---these students were "outsiders" and could have killed (thankfully they did not) more. Absolutely no political affiliation. Psychological issues, yes, manipulation of morals and values---not a chance...in fact, both of the killers were not liberal-minded at all, but rather, from their own words, very, very conservative in their views.

Not only do you generalize too much, but you tend to oversimplify the problem, as well.

Like I said, I agree with you about gun ownership,the right to bear arms, and that guns do not kill people, but your metaphorical crucifiction of libs and shooting sprees is overly simplistic.

Tim C.

 

It is simplistic, and not difficult at all, there is no gray area. While it’s not political correct to point it out, it is a vast majority of liberals who are behind much of the corrosion of family values and principles, much of the corrosion of values and principles in general.

Funny thing is the vast majority of liberals, or all of them if you count them, make up such an extremely small percentage of the population but are responsible for the largest amount of our countries corrosion of principles and values.

Now I am not pointing you out specifically because you must not be a typical liberal. Perhaps you have some liberal leanings here and there but regardless it IS the vast majority of liberals responsible for the vast majority of crimes, gun killings, and the hating of America that happens today.

However, I know from many years experience that this vast majority of liberals will never take responsibility for their actions because that goes against their core belief, their core value, their core principle that NO one has personal responsibility, nor should ANYONE be held accountable EXCEPT anyone that disagrees with them…

The facts hurt, sometimes their not nice, but they still remain the facts…

 

I do not believe that it is a liberal problem; I do not believe that it is a conservative problem: I believe that it is a societal problem.

Case in point---family values---a mother of one of my students is now on her fourth marriage (and it looks to be failing)---been divorced three times prior. Liberal or conservative?
Answer--extremely conservative in her viewpoints. Voted for Bush twice and for McCain---is a member of the NRA---but I would say (and perhaps you too,) that her family values need quite an adjustment.

Newt Gingrich was supposedly cheating on his wife while she was recovering from cancer surgery. No, the erosion of morals and values goes beyond lib/con boundaries---it, unfortunately permeates all parts of our society.

As I semi-seriously said in another thread---"We have met the enemy, and he is us."



I do not have a problem with gun ownership; the people that I know, (like me) respect them, store them properly, use them properly, educate their families on their use and care, and respect what they can do as well as what they represent in terms of our Second Amendment rights---I have the strongest trust about the people that I pal around with who own fire arms.

My problem---or rather, concern, is about the unfix-able---the idiots that can and will always be able to obtain guns. This is not a liberal/conservative finger pointing problem. This is OUR problem, caused by our own society. No gun control/registration legislation will fix that problem; to propose such legislation is sadly absurd and hopelessly mndless. As the cliche goes---"You can't cure stupid", and stupid has been around forever.

Tim C.

 

Hitler tried to take over Germany only 65 years ago. What did he do first? He banned all guns from the citizens. Its hard to believe that this could happen here in America. But everyday When you listen to the news Its sounding more and more like Pre-war Germany in this country.

 

Your missing the big picture. Abortion is a liberal idea. Gun control is a liberal idea. Big government is a liberal idea. No corporal punishment is a liberal idea. Big cities are a liberal idea. Wealth distribution is a liberal idea. The failing public education system is a liberal idea. Psychobabble is a liberal idea. Worrying excessively about peoples feeeeeelings is a liberal idea. The list could go on. But you get the idea. And all these things have deteriorated society to the level it is now. Personal responsibility and hard work are what made this country great. Liberal ideas are ruining our country to the point we will soon be like Great Briton. Not a good thing.

 

Think of it this way... if everyone could carry around guns all the time lets see how much crime acts of this caliber would happen.

30 people in a room, doing nothing wrong, then 1 person walks in and starts shooting. I find it hard to believe that 14 people or whatever the amount was would have died.


Just look at it in another way. In the past we as a people were forced to shoot or trap and bludgen an animal to death for food. Just as times has change we no longer have to shoot our food to see it in our supermarkets, its changed to a mechanical method of death not involving guns, but in the end the same result happens.

 

Thanks for all the discussion....

Nice to see that there are some educated thought processes going on amidst all the usual nonsense.

Of course I realised what I was doing with my 'liberal' post.

I feel it is necessary occasionally to play devils advocate to incite some reasoned thought.

One or two points not necessarily in any order.

Serotta Nice to hear from you again !

Odin's Wrath I have never taken a drug in my life and I don't drink much alcohol.
My educational standard is almost certainly way above the average.

I do have friends in Texas who have concealed gun licences and understand the need for the feelings they have for self protection.
It still frightens me though. Especially coming from a society where that idea of carrying a weapon is an anathma.
And you must understand the generally held view outside the States that every time we hear about these shootings we question your need for the gun culture.

Every time you come back with the same arguements never questioning the root causes.
A bit like for years that you have considered yourselves as top dog nation.
A bit of introspective thought a few years ago would have shown you the path that was being headed down.....things aren't looking so rosy now are they?

Finally, for those that don't know me and have made the more unpleasant comments, I love the United States.
I think that you are misunderstood by the rest of the world who make their judgements from the television and media in general and by their occasional trips to Disneyland!
I have been either visiting or living in the States for over 30 years since I came to Dallas all those years ago to get my US pilots licence.
I have also driven hundreds of thousands of miles all over the States, and am often told I know your country better than most residents....I'd like to place a bet that at my somewhat senior age I know your country better than most if not all of the contributors here.

I know that middle America is populated by God fearing people with high family values and I have made many valued friendships over there...I just don't like to see it going down the pan because you are in fact more insular in your views that many island nations such as my own.

That is the final post I will make on this subject.....I'm not maintaining I'm right or wrong and neither did I make the original post just to stir up the cauldron......as long as there are some logical thought processes going on !

 

I know you said your not going to post again, but here is the problem I have. You have never shot a gun before, you said you had held a gun but that means you have no experience with them. So you are basing your view that guns should be done away with on something that someone has told you. I think that if you would get some proper training with a firearm, and learn just how much "responsible" people respect them and how much care they take to be safe with them it will help you to understand our view that they are necessary. I was raised around guns, I was shooting a 22. chipmunk rifle at the age of 4 and I have hunted all my life. I put off getting my concealed Carry License for a long time because I thought I didn't need it, then one night coming out of a convenience store in ft Worth I was robbed and my girlfriend was threatened with a knife. I got my license 4 days later, and I will never let that happen again, I pray that I never have to use my weapon for anything other than shooting targets at the range, but if I ever need it I have it.

 

OK...I said I wouldn't post again, but having read your reply thought I would at least comment on your more reasoned arguement.

I said I had held guns....I have in fact used top quality guns for skeet and target practice, many years ago in a very limited way., hence do know what it feels like. I now, against my better judgement, have a very high powered air rifle purely for vermin.....and I hate using it. But of course it is not designed for anything other than rodents etc.
Even to kill a squirrel sends a shiver down my spine and I have no concept of killing anything else.
As a lad I borrowed my grand dads air rifle and shot at a swallow, never imagining it would be hit.
It dropped dead at my feet and I felt aweful, and from that age of around 10 knew I could never easily kill another living thing.

Thanks for your reply.

 

Not arguing the lib/con view, just saying, it is a liberal idea that the common man doesn't need guns.
If teachers were allowed to be armed in schools, the kids in Columbine wouldn't have got as many kills before someone with a pair put a stop to it.
Same could be said for a lot of murders. Son of Sam rolls up on someone who is packing, maybe a different outcome.
The only way that I can reasonably blame liberals is the fact that it's their fault that teacher's can't carry and that a lot of the general population feels as if they don't weapons.
Liberals would have you believe that there is no need to bring a gun to a gunfight, and you have listed some prime examples of WHY more people legally carrying guns could have saved lives that were taken by these lunatics.
Again, don't wanna get in the middle of the argument, just saying, indirectly, liberals are a little to blame on a lot of weapon issues, especially things like Columbine and Virginia Tech. I had a cousin who could see the shooter at Tech, and if he had been carrying, it would have ended sooner, I promise that. But, thanks to liberals, the people who have legal weapons and even permits can't protect themselves from deranged lunatics, just because it's a campus. Yeah, we saw how much the firearm ban on campus helped in that case (or Columbine).
A killer knows that these people are unarmed, so when he brings a weapon in illegally and people who abide by the law are unarmed, it's fish in a barrel day for psychos.

 

She is definitely liberal.

Conservatives don't get divorces except for extreme circumstances.

Especially if kids are involved.

A true conservative would live put their feelings aside and try to make things work for the sake of the well being of their kids.

You kinda screwed yourself here because divorce is a liberal thing.

 

So you are telling me that Newt Gingrich is a liberal??? Come on...

According to you:

Only liberals basically get divorces

Newt Gingrich has been divorced twice.

Therefore, Newt Gingrich is a liberal

Kinda makes no sense, doesn't it?

TSC