T150
Member
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Chattanooga, TN
Has any one ever noticed that the commercials brag about the T150 being the fastest truck and the quickest to stop. And then noticed the fine print: that acceleration numbers were compared to the Ford 4.6L while braking numbers were compared to the Ford 5.4L.
It's bad enough that they put their best motor against the competetion's middle motor, but then they have the nerve to "switch motors" for the braking contest.
They probably did this so people actually glancing at the fine print will see "5.4L" and think that was refering to the acceleration numbers.
[This message has been edited by dcd (edited 09-29-1999).]
It's bad enough that they put their best motor against the competetion's middle motor, but then they have the nerve to "switch motors" for the braking contest.
They probably did this so people actually glancing at the fine print will see "5.4L" and think that was refering to the acceleration numbers.
[This message has been edited by dcd (edited 09-29-1999).]
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada (originally from Kearny, New Jersey)
Back in my younger days I couldn't afford an F150 but I could a Toyota. Bought a new 4X4 Toyota in Guam back in '83 (4 Cylinder) and a new 4X4 Toyota Supercab (6 Cylinder) in '89. I drove both trucks for exactly 4 years before selling either one. Never put a nickle into them other then oil changes (had a paint problem after warranty expired but Toyota jumped right on it and repainted the whole truck without any hassle). Resale value was GREAT!!!, really made a ggod buck when I sold them.
Now that I'm a little older I went with the FORD because now (I think
) I can afford it (wanted that bigger engine) and needed the more spacious interior. I love my FORD but I'll never knock a Toyota.
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99 F250XLT Supercab LD
5.4L 3.73 LS
White/Silver
Graphite interior
6 CD changer/Captain's Chairs
Now that I'm a little older I went with the FORD because now (I think
) I can afford it (wanted that bigger engine) and needed the more spacious interior. I love my FORD but I'll never knock a Toyota.------------------
99 F250XLT Supercab LD
5.4L 3.73 LS
White/Silver
Graphite interior
6 CD changer/Captain's Chairs
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 1
From: Oklahoma City
Terry Lee they must have sold that truck well below invoice or she had a huge trade/down payment.
I just looked up invoice and it is about $2,000 more than your sister paid please tell the rest of the story.
I just looked up invoice and it is about $2,000 more than your sister paid please tell the rest of the story.
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Huntsville, AL
OK guys and gals, I was wrong. I just called sis and I had the numbers backwards. $21,000 was the price for the Ford F-150 she was comparing to the Tundra. The Tundra was $26,000. She like the Tundra so much, she was willing to pay the extra. Sorry for the confusion. Toyotas are pricy, but the quality is there, you cannot argue with that. Whether it is worth $5,000 extra makes for good discussion!
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'97 F150 XLT XCab, 4.6L, 4x4, Red as Rita's Rooster, Towing Pkg, 17 inch wheels, Tonneau Cover, Captain chairs, CD Changer. Two high performance freeflow booster seats (lots of pooting)in back for mother's little truckers.
HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA.....Roll Tide!
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'97 F150 XLT XCab, 4.6L, 4x4, Red as Rita's Rooster, Towing Pkg, 17 inch wheels, Tonneau Cover, Captain chairs, CD Changer. Two high performance freeflow booster seats (lots of pooting)in back for mother's little truckers.
HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA.....Roll Tide!
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Huntsville, AL
Don't know the MSRP 54regcab. She is out of town and guess what they drove? Her husbands Ford Ranger!!!
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'97 F150 XLT XCab, 4.6L, 4x4, Red as Rita's Rooster, Towing Pkg, 17 inch wheels, Tonneau Cover, Captain chairs, CD Changer. Two high performance freeflow booster seats (lots of pooting)in back for mother's little truckers.
HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA.....Roll Tide!
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'97 F150 XLT XCab, 4.6L, 4x4, Red as Rita's Rooster, Towing Pkg, 17 inch wheels, Tonneau Cover, Captain chairs, CD Changer. Two high performance freeflow booster seats (lots of pooting)in back for mother's little truckers.
HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA.....Roll Tide!
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
I've owned two ford trucks: an '87 Ranger and now a '99 F150 (see signature). I've also owned two Toyotas (a '95.5 Tacoma and a '95 Camry). I think I can make a few fair and balanced observations.
Reliability: If my life depended on me getting there, you bet your buns I'd hop in the Toyota. I'm in the automotive industry. Nobody, I mean nobody, produces a higher quality, more reliable automobile than Toyota. Mercedes may have better engineering and materials (my wife drives a '98 C-class), but look at the price premium, and that STILL doesn't buy you Toyota/Honda level reliability.
Value: Toyotas have prices that reflect their reputation. I think the prices have gotten out of line. There is no value there. The F150 is a better value, hands down. Heck, I paid almost 19,000 four years ago for a Tacoma 4x4, 5 spd, 2.8 Four cyl, standard bed, standard cab. I was always upset over the interior space: I'm only 5'10", and it wasn't big enough for me. I didn't have the seat all the way back, but to have it all the way back the seatback had to be straight up. It was a great truck, but I got a LOT more for my money four years later with my F150 at 17,900. Much more use, and much more bang for the buck. I can touch and feel and clearly see that the workmanship and engineering isn't to the Toyota standard, but nonetheless I chose the F150 because it has *good* quality, nice styling, and great features for a reasonable price. I would not call the Tundra prices reasonable. You gotta be kidding. But that seems to be the case lately with Toyota pricing.
The problem I have with Toyota lately is that they aren't producing *appealing* cars. They're very bland. High-quality blandness does not a great car make. I'll take an Accord over the Camry, thank you. A Jeep over the 4-Runner. A CRV over the RAV4. A Civic over the Corolla. Ah heck, I'd buy the Tacoma again if I wanted a small pickup; the Ranger, or nothing else that size, is even in the same class IMO.
Point is, I think Toyota does a great job of designing and producing high quality, reliable cars. They're just not all that interesing.
I like my F150. I enjoy driving it. I'm happy with my decision. It came down to the F150, the Chevy, and the Tundra. Incidentally, the prices of the new Chevy's take them clearly out of the "value" market. Chevy's base models (equivalent to the XL) are no where near as nice and cost 2-4000 more, from what I could tell at the dealership. And I just couldn't see trusting a GM product over a 60 month loan.
My two cents.
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
Penda Liner, Chrome Tubular Step Bars, Prime Designs Bug Deflector
[This message has been edited by Doug Wilkerson (edited 10-01-1999).]
Reliability: If my life depended on me getting there, you bet your buns I'd hop in the Toyota. I'm in the automotive industry. Nobody, I mean nobody, produces a higher quality, more reliable automobile than Toyota. Mercedes may have better engineering and materials (my wife drives a '98 C-class), but look at the price premium, and that STILL doesn't buy you Toyota/Honda level reliability.
Value: Toyotas have prices that reflect their reputation. I think the prices have gotten out of line. There is no value there. The F150 is a better value, hands down. Heck, I paid almost 19,000 four years ago for a Tacoma 4x4, 5 spd, 2.8 Four cyl, standard bed, standard cab. I was always upset over the interior space: I'm only 5'10", and it wasn't big enough for me. I didn't have the seat all the way back, but to have it all the way back the seatback had to be straight up. It was a great truck, but I got a LOT more for my money four years later with my F150 at 17,900. Much more use, and much more bang for the buck. I can touch and feel and clearly see that the workmanship and engineering isn't to the Toyota standard, but nonetheless I chose the F150 because it has *good* quality, nice styling, and great features for a reasonable price. I would not call the Tundra prices reasonable. You gotta be kidding. But that seems to be the case lately with Toyota pricing.
The problem I have with Toyota lately is that they aren't producing *appealing* cars. They're very bland. High-quality blandness does not a great car make. I'll take an Accord over the Camry, thank you. A Jeep over the 4-Runner. A CRV over the RAV4. A Civic over the Corolla. Ah heck, I'd buy the Tacoma again if I wanted a small pickup; the Ranger, or nothing else that size, is even in the same class IMO.
Point is, I think Toyota does a great job of designing and producing high quality, reliable cars. They're just not all that interesing.
I like my F150. I enjoy driving it. I'm happy with my decision. It came down to the F150, the Chevy, and the Tundra. Incidentally, the prices of the new Chevy's take them clearly out of the "value" market. Chevy's base models (equivalent to the XL) are no where near as nice and cost 2-4000 more, from what I could tell at the dealership. And I just couldn't see trusting a GM product over a 60 month loan.
My two cents.
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
Penda Liner, Chrome Tubular Step Bars, Prime Designs Bug Deflector
[This message has been edited by Doug Wilkerson (edited 10-01-1999).]
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
One more thing:
I'd say giving the Toyota a 4/5 rating is a little generous. The interior is narrower, a lot shallower in the rear seat, and the bed is no where as deep as mine.
Toyota just can't get the "Full Size Truck" idea.
Along the same lines, I was pulled up next to a Dodge Ram the other day. Maybe it's just visuals, but the RAM seemed smaller to me as well. It didn't seem as tall or as long. It was a quad-cab standard bed, same as mine. I just felt my truck was bigger. The Chevy seems pretty substantial, but it looks a little sloppy to me, especially the models with the tacked on cladding: it looks crooked! Heartbeat my hiney!
I'd say giving the Toyota a 4/5 rating is a little generous. The interior is narrower, a lot shallower in the rear seat, and the bed is no where as deep as mine.
Toyota just can't get the "Full Size Truck" idea.
Along the same lines, I was pulled up next to a Dodge Ram the other day. Maybe it's just visuals, but the RAM seemed smaller to me as well. It didn't seem as tall or as long. It was a quad-cab standard bed, same as mine. I just felt my truck was bigger. The Chevy seems pretty substantial, but it looks a little sloppy to me, especially the models with the tacked on cladding: it looks crooked! Heartbeat my hiney!
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 1
From: Oklahoma City
Wait a minute.
Nissan trucks are every bit as good as Toyota and about $4000.00 cheaper.
I paid $8,500 for mine new in 1992 and sold it for $3,000 when I bought my Ford.
I drove my last one 106,000 miles and never had it back to the dealer in the 60,000 mile warranty.
In fact if I would opted for the 100,000 mile extended warranty I would have never used it.
I did have to do the brakes at 85,000 miles change oil etc. but you have to do that stuff to Toyota too.
My wifes car is a Honda and it is very well made.
I considered the Tundra till I saw the sticker.
Nissan trucks are every bit as good as Toyota and about $4000.00 cheaper.
I paid $8,500 for mine new in 1992 and sold it for $3,000 when I bought my Ford.
I drove my last one 106,000 miles and never had it back to the dealer in the 60,000 mile warranty.
In fact if I would opted for the 100,000 mile extended warranty I would have never used it.
I did have to do the brakes at 85,000 miles change oil etc. but you have to do that stuff to Toyota too.
My wifes car is a Honda and it is very well made.
I considered the Tundra till I saw the sticker.
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
The Nissan's may be cheaper, but then so is everything else. My dad has a new Frontier 4x4 extra cab. I had a 95 Tacoma. Both had 4 cylinders. About the only thing I like better about the Nissan was the interior materials. Nissan, thankfully, hasn't caught on to the craze that most other manufacturers have, which is cheapening up the interior materials. My Tacoma had a thin plastic dash and stiff plasticky materials everywhere (umm, much like my F150), whereas the Frontier still has nice, plush, mushy stuff everywhere.
Having said that, my Tacoma would beat that Frontier over the head in just about every other department. It was more solid, had WAY more power (even with the 4 cylinder), and just felt tighter and more refined and more advanced all around.
I had convinced myself to purchase a Maxima the last time I bought a car, but after test driving it I just couldn't do it. There's just something about Nissan lately that doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.
Once upon a time, Nissan was second to none. You still see those late eighties, early nineties Maximas everywhere, along with the Sentras of the same era.
Furthermore, the recent styling of almost the entire Nissan line is HORRID!
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
Penda Liner, Chrome Tubular Step Bars, Prime Designs Bug Deflector
Having said that, my Tacoma would beat that Frontier over the head in just about every other department. It was more solid, had WAY more power (even with the 4 cylinder), and just felt tighter and more refined and more advanced all around.
I had convinced myself to purchase a Maxima the last time I bought a car, but after test driving it I just couldn't do it. There's just something about Nissan lately that doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.
Once upon a time, Nissan was second to none. You still see those late eighties, early nineties Maximas everywhere, along with the Sentras of the same era.
Furthermore, the recent styling of almost the entire Nissan line is HORRID!
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
Penda Liner, Chrome Tubular Step Bars, Prime Designs Bug Deflector
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
Let me soften up a little on Nissan:
I love the X-Terra. A no-bull, real sport utility. There are only a few non-poseur sport-utes out there, and I'm glad Nissan finally has one. The X-Terra is bitchin. It's affortable too.
Now the Pathfinder, on the other hand, has to be the ugliest, most misguided sport utility concieved. It's designs such as this that put me off with Nissan as a whole.
Still, the late 300ZX is one of my all time favorites, so naturally they killed it. I think my wife and I will look hard at the X-terra when the lease on the 'Benz comes up.
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
Penda Liner, Chrome Tubular Step Bars, Prime Designs Bug Deflector
I love the X-Terra. A no-bull, real sport utility. There are only a few non-poseur sport-utes out there, and I'm glad Nissan finally has one. The X-Terra is bitchin. It's affortable too.
Now the Pathfinder, on the other hand, has to be the ugliest, most misguided sport utility concieved. It's designs such as this that put me off with Nissan as a whole.
Still, the late 300ZX is one of my all time favorites, so naturally they killed it. I think my wife and I will look hard at the X-terra when the lease on the 'Benz comes up.
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'99 XL 2x4 4.2L SC 5-Spd SC Black over Silver
Penda Liner, Chrome Tubular Step Bars, Prime Designs Bug Deflector
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 1
From: Oklahoma City
I don't know about the Frontier but in 1992 when I was shopping I felt Nissan was as good as Toyota.
BTW A 1992 Nissan 4cyl (134HP) will beat a 1992 Toyota 4cyl (116HP)
I drove them both before buying the Nissan.
I just didn't understand the $4000.00 difference in price $8,500 vs $12,500.
I don't really care for the Frontier's styling either.
[This message has been edited by 54regcab (edited 10-01-1999).]
BTW A 1992 Nissan 4cyl (134HP) will beat a 1992 Toyota 4cyl (116HP)
I drove them both before buying the Nissan.
I just didn't understand the $4000.00 difference in price $8,500 vs $12,500.
I don't really care for the Frontier's styling either.
[This message has been edited by 54regcab (edited 10-01-1999).]
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Milpitas, CA USA
I'm slowly, but surely returning to American cars after buying strictly Japanese cars for 10 years because the quality differences everyone is talking about just aren't there in the numbers any more. Before you pay $10k more for that Toyota or BMW, you'd better take a 2nd look at the JD Powers or Consumer Reports web sites because if you base your decision on that you'll probably buy an American car.
I live in California and I know the stereotypes well -- American cars are crap that fall apart and Japanese cars are perfect. Well, what's funny is that nearly everyone I know and work with (regardless of how much money they make) are buying more and more American cars because the quality IS generally very good now. Not only that, but the styling is generally more innovative in American cars. (on both I'm talking about the past 3 years)
I would've had no problem affording a Toyota Tundra or Land Cruiser, but MY GOD! What the hell are they thinking when they price those things?? I bought an F150 4x2 SuperCab Lariat completely loaded up for about $27k, but a comparable Tundra would've cost me $38k (weaker engine)!! I mean, the Tacoma is manufactured right here in Fremont, CA 5 miles from where I live, so I almost bought that, but it's just too small for real homeowner's work (a friend of mine has one and I feel sorry about how often he has to tie stuff down in the bed because it is just too small to hold it).
I don't mean to rant here, but as a former Honda/Mitsubishi loyalist I think many if not most Americans need to re-think those American car/Japanese car stereotypes. Here are the reliability rankings for '99 pickup trucks directly from consumerreports.org (please don't sue me, Consumer Reports
):
1. Toyota Tacoma 2WD
2. Ford F150 2WD
3. Ford F150 4WD
4. Ford Ranger 2WD
5. Mazda B Series 2WD (AKA Ford Ranger)
6. Toyota Tacoma 4WD
Those are the ones that had average or above-average reliability. Everything else was below average (Dodge, Chevy, GMC, Ranger 4WD). To me this is a lot more reliable than talking to my friends/relatives.
I'm not trying to put down Japanese cars by any means, but I think since the "race" is pretty much "neck-and-neck" that I shouldn't have to pay $10k more for a Toyota any more.
Just my 2 cents worth...
I live in California and I know the stereotypes well -- American cars are crap that fall apart and Japanese cars are perfect. Well, what's funny is that nearly everyone I know and work with (regardless of how much money they make) are buying more and more American cars because the quality IS generally very good now. Not only that, but the styling is generally more innovative in American cars. (on both I'm talking about the past 3 years)
I would've had no problem affording a Toyota Tundra or Land Cruiser, but MY GOD! What the hell are they thinking when they price those things?? I bought an F150 4x2 SuperCab Lariat completely loaded up for about $27k, but a comparable Tundra would've cost me $38k (weaker engine)!! I mean, the Tacoma is manufactured right here in Fremont, CA 5 miles from where I live, so I almost bought that, but it's just too small for real homeowner's work (a friend of mine has one and I feel sorry about how often he has to tie stuff down in the bed because it is just too small to hold it).
I don't mean to rant here, but as a former Honda/Mitsubishi loyalist I think many if not most Americans need to re-think those American car/Japanese car stereotypes. Here are the reliability rankings for '99 pickup trucks directly from consumerreports.org (please don't sue me, Consumer Reports
):1. Toyota Tacoma 2WD
2. Ford F150 2WD
3. Ford F150 4WD
4. Ford Ranger 2WD
5. Mazda B Series 2WD (AKA Ford Ranger)
6. Toyota Tacoma 4WD
Those are the ones that had average or above-average reliability. Everything else was below average (Dodge, Chevy, GMC, Ranger 4WD). To me this is a lot more reliable than talking to my friends/relatives.
I'm not trying to put down Japanese cars by any means, but I think since the "race" is pretty much "neck-and-neck" that I shouldn't have to pay $10k more for a Toyota any more.
Just my 2 cents worth...