Israeli bombing protests

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 11:32 AM
  #331  
dexx00420's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: Eastern, WA
If people believe there is a God then that makes them accountable to a higher power out there. Some people don't like that thought.
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 11:32 AM
  #332  
dexx00420's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: Eastern, WA
If people believe there is a God then that makes them accountable to a higher power out there. Some people don't like that thought.
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 12:27 PM
  #333  
solomonHk's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: TX
Originally Posted by Frank S
I can't touch on every statement you made above for time, but science is in agreement with the Bible that the earth was flooded completley once in the past. To me, the Biblical creation of the earth is much more palatable than the earth being created by a big bang and all animal life from macro and micro-biological soup. Even Einstein believed so.

In my experience, most people do not choose to believe in God based on the hardness of their hearts and/or not wanting to change their lives.
Link to source stating that science agrees there was a global flood during man's time?

I think you are confused as to what Einstein believed. Einstein gave acceptance to what he called "a necessity for a beginning." and the "presence of a high power of reasoning" but he never did accept the reality of a personal God. Einstein believed in Intelligent Design, not Young Earth Creationism. The theory of Big Bang was based on Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Which states that because of gravity et al, the universe could not be static, it needed an origin in order for all this to be possible. When Big Bang was introduced, Einstein refused to believe it so he introduced his cosmological constant into the equation so that the sums could show a static universe. However, he later admited that the cosmological constant was the biggest blunder of his career. Further more, the Theory of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are the two most accurate and complete theories in existence. These theories show us that the universe is expanding. By reversing this expansion you can see origin.

Believing in the big bang, scientific theory, or what science has proven does not lend to disbelief in God. I, personally, believe in God. However, dogmatic beliefs, such as Young Earth Creationism, simply does not jibe and it never will. And just as I said about the ark and 15k species. If this were true, and a global flood did occur. Based on the time it took to go from 15k to millions of species today, we should see 1-2k new species every year which scientifically, we have seen 1-2 species/year since the 1700s.
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 02:06 PM
  #334  
Frank S's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
I no longer get caught up in posting links on this board. I've been here since 1998 and when I post links, in my experience, people 'always' find more reasons to shun God to rationalize in their own minds what they do. In my own life, I research myself and make my own decisions. Keep in mind that if you are right, I will just die and that will be it. But if I am right, you will have much to answer for.

If you truly seek truth, it is out there to be found. Keep in mind also that everything you are told in textbooks and in college are not truth. Cancer can't even be prevented. Plane crashes still happen. Economies still go bust.
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 02:13 PM
  #335  
Tumba's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 1
From: >wwOwww<
Originally Posted by Frank S
I no longer get caught up in posting links on this board. I've been here since 1998 and when I post links, in my experience, people 'always' find more reasons to shun God to rationalize in their own minds what they do. In my own life, I research myself and make my own decisions. Keep in mind that if you are right, I will just die and that will be it. But if I am right, you will have much to answer for.

If you truly seek truth, it is out there to be found. Keep in mind also that everything you are told in textbooks and in college are not truth. Cancer can't even be prevented. Plane crashes still happen. Economies still go bust.
I swear We must know each other
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 02:24 PM
  #336  
Tumba's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 1
From: >wwOwww<
Originally Posted by Frank S
I can't touch on every statement you made above for time, but science is in agreement with the Bible that the earth was flooded completley once in the past. To me, the Biblical creation of the earth is much more palatable than the earth being created by a big bang and all animal life from macro and micro-biological soup. Even Einstein believed so.

In my experience, most people do not choose to believe in God based on the hardness of their hearts and/or not wanting to change their lives.
I thought this one was settled. I can't Remember which of the TV evangelist siad it, I think it was Billy Graham said, "With a bang God created the universe".
 

Last edited by Tumba; Jan 16, 2009 at 02:26 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 02:48 PM
  #337  
solomonHk's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: TX
Originally Posted by Frank S
I no longer get caught up in posting links on this board. I've been here since 1998 and when I post links, in my experience, people 'always' find more reasons to shun God to rationalize in their own minds what they do. In my own life, I research myself and make my own decisions. Keep in mind that if you are right, I will just die and that will be it. But if I am right, you will have much to answer for.

If you truly seek truth, it is out there to be found. Keep in mind also that everything you are told in textbooks and in college are not truth. Cancer can't even be prevented. Plane crashes still happen. Economies still go bust.
And 10 years still hasnt taught you to read thoroughly. I have not shun God, I just dont take translated text literally as you. If I am right, the outcome is the same if you are right. Learn to read. And even if I were an atheist, I can tell you something as weak as Pascal's Wager would not sway me. Pascal's Wager is and always will be a very poor recruiting method for Christians. Additionally, making that statement lends me to believe you are one of the ones who picks and chooses what he will listen to. As a Christian, it is a horrible thing to pass judgement on non believers. Jesus didnt believe in doing that, so his followers shouldnt either. As with Thomas; Thomas said that until he saw and felt the holes in Christ's hands he would not believe. How did Jesus respond? He showed Thomas his hands. Thomas responded "My Lord and My God!" I think this shows that just because someone has doubt that they are condemned. Its this view that unless you believe you are screwed has me so upset with SO-CALLED Christians. If you think like this, you are no better than the people who threw Jesus to the wolves.
Sure college teaches alot of innacuracies, just like it teaches how Roosevelt and the Rough Riders took San Juan hill when it was actually an all BLACK regiment. Rough Riders took the wrong hill. Concerning God, I do not need to seek the truth to God, that is why they call it faith(confidence, loyalty, allegiance). However, having faith in God does not give excuses to ignoring empirical evidence.
 

Last edited by solomonHk; Jan 16, 2009 at 03:07 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 03:35 PM
  #338  
Tumba's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 1
From: >wwOwww<
Originally Posted by solomonHk
And 10 years still hasnt taught you to read thoroughly. I have not shun God, I just dont take translated text literally as you. If I am right, the outcome is the same if you are right. Learn to read. And even if I were an atheist, I can tell you something as weak as Pascal's Wager would not sway me. Pascal's Wager is and always will be a very poor recruiting method for Christians. Additionally, making that statement lends me to believe you are one of the ones who picks and chooses what he will listen to. As a Christian, it is a horrible thing to pass judgement on non believers. Jesus didnt believe in doing that, so his followers shouldnt either. As with Thomas; Thomas said that until he saw and felt the holes in Christ's hands he would not believe. How did Jesus respond? He showed Thomas his hands. Thomas responded "My Lord and My God!" I think this shows that just because someone has doubt that they are condemned. Its this view that unless you believe you are screwed has me so upset with SO-CALLED Christians. If you think like this, you are no better than the people who threw Jesus to the wolves.
Sure college teaches alot of innacuracies, just like it teaches how Roosevelt and the Rough Riders took San Juan hill when it was actually an all BLACK regiment. Rough Riders took the wrong hill. Concerning God, I do not need to seek the truth to God, that is why they call it faith(confidence, loyalty, allegiance). However, having faith in God does not give excuses to ignoring empirical evidence.

I don't think his intent was as you read it.
just a misunderstanding.
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 04:17 PM
  #339  
Frank S's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: Blue Ridge Mountains, GA
And 10 years still hasnt taught you to read thoroughly
And 10 years has taught me that many times people resort to insults. Let's not fall into the common denominator. Google is a powerful thing to utilize to read and learn about opposing points of view.
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 08:05 PM
  #340  
chris1450's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 774
Likes: 1
From: western washington
Originally Posted by Old Dogg™
My comments are a response to an attitude not you in particular.

Specifically in this case it's Religious Dogma that allows, condones and justifies killing innocents of a particular geographic location, ethnic group and religion.

The old books do speak of punishments fitting the crime...the innocents in this case have committed no crime.

Numerous crimes against humanity have been perpetrated in the name of this Dogma over thousands of years....
We have come so far...to the same place.
We should be proud.
And when dirty little hamas hides in schools full of children and fire those rockets, Israel is suppose to have restraint? Your premise is to basic. there is a lot more to it.
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 08:20 PM
  #341  
Tumba's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 1
From: >wwOwww<
Originally Posted by chris1450
And when dirty little hamas hides in schools full of children and fire those rockets, Israel is suppose to have restraint? Your premise is to basic. there is a lot more to it.
Don't forget about the Holy Mosque's, and then condemn them for destroying
a Holy place
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 09:24 PM
  #342  
Old Dogg™'s Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern Virginia
Originally Posted by chris1450
And when dirty little hamas hides in schools full of children and fire those rockets, Israel is suppose to have restraint? Your premise is to basic. there is a lot more to it.
This may be a hard concept to grasp but if the kill ratio is 1 of your people to 100 dead civillian bystanders why kill more innocents and drive the ratio up to 1 to 150 or 1 of your people killed to 200 innocents when this will not stop the rockets?

Then in the end they will still shoot more rockets to protest the ongoing blockade and restriction of freedom of movement. You will have killed over 1,000 innocents to kill 100 fighters....but 500 fighters blended in and will continue to shoot rockets....and you will have made 10,000 mortal enemies.

Then you will wonder why the majority of people in that region hate you and wish you dead?
 
Reply
Old Jan 16, 2009 | 09:46 PM
  #343  
Tumba's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 1
From: >wwOwww<
Originally Posted by Old Dogg™
This may be a hard concept to grasp but if the kill ratio is 1 of your people to 100 dead civillian bystanders why kill more innocents and drive the ratio up to 1 to 150 or 1 of your people killed to 200 innocents when this will not stop the rockets?

Then in the end they will still shoot more rockets to protest the ongoing blockade and restriction of freedom of movement. You will have killed over 1,000 innocents to kill 100 fighters....but 500 fighters blended in and will continue to shoot rockets....and you will have made 10,000 mortal enemies.

Then you will wonder why the majority of people in that region hate you and wish you dead?
There was once a time of chivalry when you new who the enemy was. The british thought of us as barbarians because during the Revolutionary war, we would hide behind trees and shoot at their battle lines. If not for that the world would still be ruled by tyrany and no representation of the peolpe. The man with the most payed soldiers and weapons won by attrition. Less civilians were killed because the battles were gathered in one spot. So in effect , did the terrorist learn from us?
 
Reply
Old Jan 17, 2009 | 02:22 PM
  #344  
Old Dogg™'s Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern Virginia
Originally Posted by Tumba
There was once a time of chivalry when you new who the enemy was. The british thought of us as barbarians because during the Revolutionary war, we would hide behind trees and shoot at their battle lines. If not for that the world would still be ruled by tyrany and no representation of the peolpe. The man with the most payed soldiers and weapons won by attrition. Less civilians were killed because the battles were gathered in one spot. So in effect , did the terrorist learn from us?
Yes they did and as with most technology that gradually migrates down the food chain, so will nuclear weapons.

Here is another thought.
Many here think there are only two possibilities. What if there are 3?

1. The Bible is literally correct and this war is religious in overtones.
2. There is no God and faith is just hope of things unseen.
3. There is a God, there was a Jesus but the books are guides and not literal facts to kill over.

The 10 commandments were very simple. They talked of killing and neighbors.
What if you and many others are wrong and it's either #2 or #3?
Im sure it would not be the first time anyone was wrong yes?
Why do so many think it HAS to be #1 with no doubt and what will be the price if they are wrong?
Everything has a price we will pay.
 
Reply
Old Jan 17, 2009 | 05:05 PM
  #345  
Tumba's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 1
From: >wwOwww<
Originally Posted by Old Dogg™
Yes they did and as with most technology that gradually migrates down the food chain, so will nuclear weapons.

Here is another thought.
Many here think there are only two possibilities. What if there are 3?

1. The Bible is literally correct and this war is religious in overtones.
2. There is no God and faith is just hope of things unseen.
3. There is a God, there was a Jesus but the books are guides and not literal facts to kill over.

The 10 commandments were very simple. They talked of killing and neighbors.
What if you and many others are wrong and it's either #2 or #3?
Im sure it would not be the first time anyone was wrong yes?
Why do so many think it HAS to be #1 with no doubt and what will be the price if they are wrong?
Everything has a price we will pay.
My belief is more like;
These predictions were made by philosopher/prophets, and there are people in this world making them happen to glorify themselves in the sight of God.

The only other possibility this has, is that it provides some service beyond our understanding, within the Body of God.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:49 PM.