You are correct. It was definitely mis-management but if the laborers walk off the job and refuse to come back to work unless they come up with yet another ridiculous contract the union has to take some of the blame. The union held them hostage in some cases.
Your union is not the same as the auto workers union.

 

The main diffference is the non-union journeyman would have to prove he is WORTH $27/hour, where the union journeyman just automatically gets it.

The union journeyman also gets the joy of getting 8-10% of his check taken out for "working dues" in addition to the monthly dues he must pay.

 

But you still didn't explain why you deserve more money. You just said you'd take it. I totally understand wanting to get paid as much as possible for your work, but that doesn't explain why you deserve at least %15 more than a non-union worker.

In other words, what makes the union electrician worth the extra $5+/hr more than the non-union electrician?

- NCSU

 

Ill make another example....Recently in my area, there was a massive liquid fertilizer tank collapse{in the millions of gallons} the entire neighborhood was forced to evacuate, the spill subsequently polluted a tributary to the chesapeke bay.The investigation found a faulty weld was to blame, who built the tank? A non union company...the mindset is like this, in order to make the money, you must be quailified and unions have apprenticeships for just this reason...you have to prove yourself academically as well as on the job, and when you reach full scale pay you have done just that. Take your local hvac contractor for example, you are having a new system installed in your house, no journeyman mechanics are available, in the mind of the contractor" I've got to get this job done" so he sends two 12 an hour helpers to work on the job...with no experienced supervision, well they take it upon themselves to perform tasks they have no business doing because they are going to make an impression on the boss..or they are just over confident in their skills. at best they keep a service man busy for a week trying to get it right, at worst, they kill your whole family in the middle of the night from carbon monoxide poisoning because they don't know rise vs.run codes or whatever the case may be. Where is your assurance that quailified people are performing the work? Because the owner or manager "said" they were quailified? When lives, property and the enviroment are at stake.......PROVE IT! My personal situation, the contractor I work for has been in the facility for 52 years. They just approved our new agreement and welcomed us back with open arms and warm smiles . They know when a unit goes down, they have the best workforce in the world to get it back up in quick time, and when you talk about millions of dollars a day in lost production, the possibility of a enviromental disaster, and massive loss of life due to failure, do you want to think you have quality or do you want to know it? Don't let the sweet smell of a low price override the horrible taste of poor quality...

 

I'll pay the 7 or 800 a year to make an extra 8-10,000

 

So it's the fact that a contractor is union that makes them produce quality work and not the way management handles business?

 

I understand the point you're making, but what you're basically saying is, "Every union worker is inherently better than a non-union worker, therefore our labor should cost more."

Your story about a contractor sending unqualified people to do a job, that's the contractor's failure to uphold professional and ethical standards. If he's legally negligent, he could lose his contractor's license. Am I to believe that every single union employee is held to a higher professional and ethical standard than every non-union employee?

You touched on proving yourself academically and on the job, what kind of proof is required? If you are indeed receiving additional education and on-the-job training that a non-union worker is incapable of achieving, then I can understand why you'd be worth more per hour.

- NCSU

 

I can't break it down any smaller. this is becoming comparing apples and oranges

 

If that were only true.

You said earlier than union workers make ~15% more than non-union workers. So if the non-union guy is making ~$22/hr the union guy is making ~$25/hr. So based on a 40 hour work week the non-union worker makes $44k/yr and the union worker makes $50k/yr, but pays $5k in working dues, plus monthly dues. Seems to me they get home with about the same amount of money.

 

How? What makes a union employee inherently better than non-union? It's a pretty simple question that you've failed to answer on every occasion. I even tried to help you out by asking about any additional education or training that would differentiate you from a non-union employee.

Say you got laid off and you are interviewing for some other job and the interviewer says,
"We've got 1 open position, and it's between you and a guy who's worked for a medium sized private company for the past 10 years. He wants $X an hour, and you said you need $X+. (Whatever your union wage used to be) Tell me why I should hire you for more money than the other guy."

How would you answer?

- NCSU

 

Anybody is capable of getting educated, the question is will the contractor demand it? Testing proves it, you can't pass the test without having the theory and hands on experience. As far as contractor conduct you're right, but it happens everyday. non union can take the journeyman test and get a state registry number, many don't out of laziness, can't afford it, or they are just happy in their current situation and don't want to..

 

FYI I spent 6 years in the IBEW. I left because I got tired of getting paid the same amount as the other guys that didn't care about their work, only showed up 4 days a week, and hardly worked when they were there. Leaving for a non-union contractor actually got me a raise because they were actually allowed to pay one worker more than another based on job performance.

 

I would respond saying I had 6000 hour apprenticeship, 584 classroom hours and 90 percentile test scores.....and blankety blank hours as a journeyman

 

To which the interviewer responds:

"Well the other guy graduated from a trade school, has over 20,000 hours on the job, a perfect safety record, a state contractors license, has managed a field crew and wants less money. Sorry, better luck next time."

From what you've said it sounds like anyone could get the education and experience that unions provide. So I guess I just don't agree that union employees should cost more purely because they're in a union.

- NCSU

 

A bad weld could be made by a Union welder as well. We are all human.
Having a union worker does not prove they are qualified either.All Unions are not created equal.