So you'd like them to stay illiterates? Knowledge is power... let them have both, and perhaps:

Will no longer be a problem...

Then again... replace "religious elders" with "main stream media" and we arrive at how -you- cast -your- vote... That flat panel "telling you to"...

They got out there under the threat of death to cast, for the first times in their lives, a "vote". Nice way to diminish that achievement. Considering how well our own election process is bastardized by the likes of the ACORNS of the country, your view doesn't surprise me.

They are not torturing their citizenry either...

Maybe so... but having multiple friends and some family actively serving, lets just say, none of them share your views or outlook.

Isn't that what I said? We are currently welcome there, and the "king" having the final say? Last time I checked we weren't anywhere that we weren't welcome... outside of wartime occupation... Even then, there’s a fair amount or even a majority that see us as "necessary" rather than wanted.

So, how you going to feel when our boys and girls are redeployed to the Democrats pet projects of Darfur and (a return to) Somalia? You going to share the same amount of outrage at a death of one of them then? OR is it OK, because -you- deem the situation "ok"? I'll use your argument against you... the warlords don't want us there... that's why we were attacked... They are only raiding the RC trucks because they're huuuungry... <snif>!!
Do we get to call Obama a war criminal? By the standards the libs have set these past 6 years, I'd say yes. So lets just save everyone the trouble and impeach in now. Whadda ya' say?

Then they need to take it up with the "King"

 

Last I checked our military wasn't comprised totally of Christians, nor did I realize our country was the same way. Perhaps they should learn how to read, and learn about our culture? Oh wait! They can't because you want them to stay illiterate!

Seems Bin Laden is the ignorant one. nope, that can't be it, he DID enjoy a Western education... you know the type he rallies AGAINST.
How about they just don't like anything "western", and that they have bastardized the Islamic religion? Funny how normal Muslims don't agree with the reason for the WTC attacks. You should stop sounding like an apologist for radical Muslims. You decry our aggression but give "them" a pass on theirs... how come they don't want to talk or negotiate? I'll tell you why, they want you, yes you, Old Dogg™,DEAD. No negotiations, just DEAD.

Name games? What because I used the term "hippy liberal". You did read that I said "your" as opposed to "you're"? So.. ok... if the shoe fits...

They want us dead for a host of reasons... #1 is that we're NOT ISLAMIC! I thought you've read all about them? We don't follow the Koran... therefore you DIE Infidel!

If what you say is true... THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE.
I'm sorry that you give the impression that you didn't enjoy it very much.

That aside, your service doesn't preclude anyone’s right to an opinion about the war(s), past, present and future.

You're really blind to what's goin on over there aren't you? I have yet to hear any report of us wanting them to live up to "American Standards". You'll use a convient term like "nation building" to bolster a failed argument based on a false premise.

Had we gone in a removed Sadam, then left the place in shambles... you'd have a humanitarian crisis the likes you've never seen. Every one of you would be out crying, screaming that we were the cause of an Iraqi genocide! Don't deny it. Just admit that no matter what we did there you'd take opposition to it... So we’re there making things right, but you still have a problem with it. You'd have rather us just rolled over and take the deaths of 3000 people in the WTC as good little oppressive, occupying nation building, imperialists that we are... right? We deserved it!!! Waaahhhh!!

Again, thanks for your service, but I’m somehow relieved that you’re retired. I’m also thinking that you joined for a career, never believing you’d have to pull the trigger. Am I right?

I blame the CIC (Carter) for it all. Your liberal bias once again gives the one responsible a pass. For someone who spent 20 years in the military, you seem to have conviently forgotten the chain of command. Or does it just apply to a Republican administration?

 

Not only is reading comprehention a problem for you... it appears that you just have a problem reading ... in GENERAL.

I weep that our education system wasn't able to weed someone like you out.

 

Since you seem to have missed the last part of my post I will post it again...
Maybe you just didn't have an answer.
The surge Mccain wanted in Afganistan will not work as has already been stated by the top military brass but wait....They didnt listen to them when we went to war with Iraq over 5 years ago did they?

Top Military officials have been saying for some time there is no amount of troops, no amount of money to win.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

Maybe you and the rest of your right wing nut friends need to stop listening to that right wing talk radio crap and read yourselves.

Adm. Michael G. Mullen, President Bush's nominee to head the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "Unless the Iraqi government takes advantage of the "breathing space" that U.S. forces are providing, Mullen said, "no amount of troops in no amount of time will make much of a difference."

I guess he is also a pacifist and has a defeatist attitude?

Too bad you missed the point. Most people voting age cant read. Elections anytime soon will not be elections as we know them. Word play will not change that. The media play up the appearance of something great that was not. You bought it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_r...n_Saudi_Arabia

You need to get out in the world.

 

And I too have multiple friends and family members...some share my views, some do not. I don't just talk to and listen to people that think like me as you seem to. I also have friends from other countries along with Arab speaking countries also. I read from many sources.
Sorry to surprise you but yours and your family and friends view is a minority view that ignores the facts.

As a taxpayer I have the right to agree or disagree with whatever this country does with my tax dollars and young lives we pay to do our bidding.
You are going over the top with the partisan rhetoric again...it doesn't help your argument. Try to stay on topic.

Funny you get so much impression from a sentence stating I served. Actually my service in the military was one of the most enjoyable things I have done in my life because I loved my job, the travel...and they paid me while I did it.
Only thing I didn't like was the hazing (equator crossing, advancement to E-7).
Sorry but I don't swat a fly with a sledgehammer.
3,000 killed in an unprovoked attack. We respond by killing who knows how many tens of thousands of innocents, 14,000 dead or permanently disabled of our own troops and will spend over a trillion dollars ($1,000,000,000,000). And we still dont know if Bin Laden is dead?

Wrong again. I joined for free college, enjoyed it so much I stayed for 20. I knew by the nature of my job my life was always in danger. I saw death many times...even nearly my own a few close calls.

No, nothing to do with liberal bias...just plain facts. For 12 years I worked on and flew in the type of helicopters they used. They are very hard to maintain on a good day. I don't blame Carter for aircraft breaking down and them having to scrub the mission. I don't blame Carter for the sandstorm that caused the collision between the C-130 and the H-53.

Maybe it's your far right wing extremist bias blinds you to simple facts.
By your rationale Bush is to blame for it all also?

 

again I say.. you're so busy talking, you ain't listening...
Yes.

Does this even require a response?


Where does that say anything about torture? Anything -you- might deem wrong, human rights wise, you're comparing with and holding to an "American standard", and by your own words:
So your Wiki link is irrelevant... buy YOUR OWN standards. So which way are you going to go with it?

You need to remember your talking points and figure out which side of the debate your on. You can’t have it both ways.

 

Not from what I hear... and I'm told that those that think like you do in active service, tend not to be to popular, and are not viewed as a team player.

As do I, your opinion is no more relevant or important than mine or the next guys. Deal with it. For some reason you think your *not* spewing rhetoric? You Libs wrote the book on over the top propaganda, Old Dogg™ needs some new tricks...

No I get it from your general attitude that you expose on this board... not a single sentence. As I understand... this "hazing" is time honored tradition... it must have been real rough on ya'.. poor little Pollywog...

Dead? Who knows... certainly neutralized...

Now you're calling 9/11 unprovoked? I thought it was because of a "Christian Army in the Muslim's Holy Land?

Huh? Which is it? Provoked? Un-provoked? You're talking in circles now Old Dogg™.

As someone who had a front row seat on 9/11... I'm ALL for ANY spending that needs to be done, no matter how long, or how much. I can't put a price on never having to deal with a day like that ever again. I'd like to think you feel the same, but you leave me wondering.

Sorry, Old Dogg™, I don't believe you. Thanks again though.

Sorry again.. it's just oozing from you...

 

You don't like what I post so you attack me. Typical for a 5th grader, but not for a grown adult.

I'm sorry...I don't know what comprehention means....

 

You're arguing with me on a point that didn't exist... all because you -didn't- read what I posted.
If you want to act like a 5th grader, I'll treat you like one.

 

A point that doesn't exist....hmm, well, you stated that their military was strong enough to hold their own and I provided a link that said otherwise. I read what you posted and replied with something that stated the opposite.


Let's try this again.
You posted this:
Then, I posted a link contradicting your claim.

 

Seems you are the one not listening. I say there is no real win as we know it in Iraq. You and most far to the right sitll use cliches and slogans inspite of the facts. Then you say ask the generals. I show you what the next head of the joint chiefs of staff says (military top brass), you ignore it just as Bush did when war started. It was said from the outset that there was no military victory to be had. 6 years later the same still applies.
In your own words"
Then when what they say contradicts what you believe you think they are pacifist and have a defeatist attitude regardless of the facts they have more of than both you and I.

On the topic of Saudi Arabia I point out that people in the region dont like our presence there. You foolishly point out that if the King (minorty leader) wants us there it's ok which doesn't change the fact that the majority of people in the region don't like us there.

You seem to believe that Saudi Arabia some how treats their people democratically which is just ignorant. I give you a link that shows they are also a dictatorship similar to our arch enemy Iran with Islamic religious law (Sharia) and punishments (beheadings, stonings). You call the facts "irrelevant".

Now you say,
When my argument is based on the facts not talking points when I tell you to get out and learn more than the same old foolish, "they hate us for our freedom mantra" you still chant.

Ok, because people disagree with what you and your friends (minority) think, they are not team players or popular. Sorry to tell you but the team with the least players usually looses. Popularity is irrelevant when you are the minority.

My general attitude on this board is different on many topics unlike yours seems to be so far to the right.
It's typical of the far right to think they have all the right answers when they do not. You seem to not live and learn....just push the same failed wrong ideas regardless of the facts.

Exactly my point, with no facts you assume he is neutralized as we continue to spend Billions fighting the group he organized in the same country our support and funding for him started.
You don't learn so you cant see the irony and foolishness of it.

I shouldn't have to say this but 911 was an unprovoked attack on innocent people. There is a stated reason for it by those that did it. Our response was wrong and misdirected towards Iraq. We are distracted nation building a country while the Taliban and Al Queda resurge someplace else. Years ago Generals said this would happen just as they said our military and resources would be bogged down in a civil war as they are. They also said attacking Iraq would destabilize the region and strengthen Iran which it did. All your chants and slogans will not change the facts.

Bogged down in the country that never attacked us while the terrorist group that did is elsewhere really makes me feel safer.
You just bought a lie and cant seem to admit the mistake. Like the guy that is lost and keeps driving and refuses to stop and ask for help or read a map.
Keep driving no matter what it cost.
You leave me wondering also.

I don't get this one? But it fits your pattern of ignoring facts.
Why do I need to lie about why I joined the military? My parents worked like dogs sending both my older sisters to college...I decided after a year I could join the military and pay my own way so I did....Typical fact denial again.
You are consistent if nothing else....consistently wrong but consistent.
Thanks for making your points!
Peace and Respect.

 

How about quoting me in context. You're going to be so arrogant to think you can tell me what I meant? There is NO POINT for you to counter, I did NOT say that the Iraqi Army is currently ready to take over... in your exuberance of trying to form a coherent point, -you- missed THE POINT.
I even went as far to inform you of you incorrect assumption by adding "(that)" since you couldn't understand the point with out it.
If you can't understand this, then I can't help you... and perhaps you should return to the 4th grade, since the average 5th grader laughs at your incompetence.

 

Quoting your entire message with your comment about the Iraqi military in bold:

Is it still taken out of context? There is a point for me to counter, to prove you're wrong with your claim of the strength of the Iraqi military. If I missed the point of your claim, please enlighten all of us, if you can.

Whether I missed the point or not is not an issue to me(although, it is very clear what you meant with the above claim), I am simply punching holes into your bogus theories and ideology by proving you wrong. It's funny that you don't want me to counter when you are clearly wrong about something.

Following your initial claim
with this is not helping your case:

 

I don't see your point. He said the Iraqi military is strong enough yet not ready. Big deal.

 

you wouldn't...but that's OK.