Originally Posted by PKRWUD

This is a very interesting thread. The only one true consistency among the "believers" so far is that everyone has their own interpretation, so how can any of you say that anyone else is wrong unless you say that everyone else is wrong?





The Bible tells us that the Earth is around 6000 years old. Were this true, it would be easy to believe that everything we see couldn't have happened on it's own accord.

Science tells us the Earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old. To put that into perspective, if every kilometer you drove in your truck equalled 1 million years of the Earth's history, you would have to drive from Los Angeles to New York City to cover the entire history of this planet. That's plenty of time for things to progress to where they are today.





Let's start at the very beginning. Genesis chapter one clearly states that Adam and Eve were created at the same time, but in chapter two, it states that God first made Adam, and after Adam did a bunch of things, he felt lonely, and told God this. God agreed to give him a mate, and created Eve out of one of Adams ribs.

Two different versions of the same event, in the same book of the Bible. If you are to take the bible literally, verbatim, or believe that when a story or theory changes the previous version is proven false, you're already screwed, and you haven't even gotten to the third chapter.

In the Ten Commandments, it clearly states that "Thou shall not kill." There's no list of exceptions or loopholes, just that it's wrong to kill. But Exodus 35:2 says that anyone working on the sabbath should be put to death, and Deuteronomy 21:18-21 says that we should stone to death disobedient children. In fact, the Bible has dozens of valid reasons to break that commandment. And God is no saint, either. In the Bible, God takes the lives of 2,270,365 people (NOT including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the many plagues and famines, etc.). Satan is only responsible for 10 deaths, those of Job's seven sons and three daughters.







Okay, which is it? A true Christian believes that God is infallible. If you take part of the Bible verbatim, you must take the whole thing verbatim, not just bits and pieces. To do otherwise would be hypocritical, and invalidate everything. This is why it is so dangerous to take the Bible as anything more than a set of guidelines to live your life by, should you not be able to come up with guidelines on your own.


The Bible advocates prejudice, superstition, cruelty, and murder. If you want to believe in it, that's your right, but it doesn't make anyone a better person on it's own.

Originally Posted by bluejay432000

This was supposed to be a discussion of Chritianity, which is New Testament. There is no cruelty that I can remember other than Christians being persecuted in the New Testament.

Originally Posted by PKRWUD

Let's start at the very beginning. Genesis chapter one clearly states that Adam and Eve were created at the same time, but in chapter two, it states that God first made Adam, and after Adam did a bunch of things, he felt lonely, and told God this. God agreed to give him a mate, and created Eve out of one of Adams ribs.

Two different versions of the same event, in the same book of the Bible. If you are to take the bible literally, verbatim, or believe that when a story or theory changes the previous version is proven false, you're already screwed, and you haven't even gotten to the third chapter.

Originally Posted by Turbo77

No one specified this to be a New vs Old testament did they?
And of course there's no mention of Christians being the persecutors... it's not PC and wouldn't fit into the vision Christians have for themselves in todays society.

Originally Posted by _cashel

Ok, so you if you accept jesus in to your heart, you're forgiven and let into heaven. If you don't accept him you're sent straight to hell? What's with the fire and brimstone? It's almost like a 'you're either with us or against us' sort of thing. There's no 'land of the lost' so to speak of non believers that doesn't consist of being brutally torn apart into pieces because you chose not to follow that faith? That to me has always stood out in my mind. Christianity has always been preaching how perfect it is, and how it preaches love and whatnot, which is great, if that helps people live better lives then more power to them. I just find it a little contradictory that when you're cast out for not following a religion based on love, you're cast out to pretty much the worst place you could go rather than a 'neutral ground'.

Originally Posted by bluejay432000

You want to explain everything with logic and science and that is the opposite of what faith in God is all about.
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Originally Posted by Habibi

...and that my friends is why it's pointless to try and debate anything with a BAC.

Logic, science, reason and common sense all get tossed out the window when there's the tiniest chance it might expose their belief system as being wrong.

Originally Posted by Turbo77

Hypothetical question:
If a baby is born with no knowledge of God, and lives in seclusion all his/her life and never hears anything about God/Christ/Christianity... are they still a sinner?

Originally Posted by Habibi

...and that my friends is why it's pointless to try and debate anything with a BAC.

Logic, science, reason and common sense all get tossed out the window when there's the tiniest chance it might expose their belief system as being wrong.

Originally Posted by Habibi

...and that my friends is why it's pointless to try and debate anything with a BAC.

Logic, science, reason and common sense all get tossed out the window when there's the tiniest chance it might expose their belief system as being wrong.

Originally Posted by bluejay432000

The title of the thread is "Christianity" which means "Christ like" or following Christ. To me, that means it could only be dealing with the New Testament and Christ's teachings.

Originally Posted by thorherc67

well i am sorry but that is not a logical question at all.. If you are born into seclusion then how are you gonna grow and be nurtured. you would never learn to speak, you would never learn anything or have to make decisions. They would die a infant so yeah they would go to heaven.

If you are asking what if you grew up without any knowledge of God, well i am sorry but i dont think that is possible. You drive down the street and see church's and bill boards for christianity and on the radio and tv. You are gonna see a bible or even take a science class and possibly wonder.. there has to be a God out there.. It doesn't even make sense that this whole world was formed be chance. So i really dont think it is possible to at least wonder about a God

Originally Posted by _cashel

You can apply that example to the natives found in South America a few months ago. They had NO outside contact with the outside world. Their culture had remained essentially unchanged over the last several hundreds of years. I mean they were trying to throw sticks at the airplane photographing them.

Are they considered sinners? Do some you feel obligated to try and expose them to Christianity? What if they reject it because they're firmly rooted in their beliefs?

edit: and a spinoff question to the example, do we as a Western culture, have the right to try and change/'update' them to the current world?

Originally Posted by bluejay432000

You guys want short answers to your questions. Is this right or is this wrong? Is there a God or is there not? Is there a heaven or is there not? It doesn't work that way. You have to read the Bible with an open mind and it helps greatly if you know a little bit about it before hand. The first four books of the NT are called the gospels because they were written as chronicles of Jesus's life up thru the resurrection. These are different perspectives by men that were with him and they were written for different reasons, so reveal different things. Acts is just that. It's a "listing" of the acts of the apostles that carried on Jesus's message. Then you have the letters that were written to different groups of people or to individuals. These were all written by people that knew Jesus and had been there, but they have a purpose or reason for being written. Lastly, there is Revelations which is forecasting things to come. These were all written in the lifetime of those that had been with Jesus. Man has twisted the meanings thru time, has done great harm to others in the name of God, every atrocity you can think of. That does not make the message given to us thru the Bible any less real. It's just the greed of man being men. Quit listening to what others tell you and do some study of the Bible it's self. Do it without a mindset that says, ok, I am going to prove this is baloney and that is just what you will do. However, study with an open mind and see if there is a message for you and you may be surprised. If not, then so be it, but I bet you will be surprised. If you are really a scholar, do some history reading about the origin of the Catholic Church( about 400 AD in Rome)and then the restoration movement that caused the formation of denominations. This was an attempt to get away from the Catholic doctrine and back to the New Testament Church. It's all there if anyone really wants to learn.

A discussion such as we are having here will never provide many answers, but hopefully it raises questions that causes you to investigate.