I'm voting democrat!

Old Jul 21, 2008 | 08:30 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by referee54
I'm voting Democrat because: I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't


OK, Chris---how do you propose that we change this so that we can maintain our roads and highways? What source of revenue would you have us tap into to build, to maintain, and to create new roads? Just interested here on this point. (15% is rather steep---so what is your other source of income to alleviate this taxation?)

Tim C.
If you havent noticed even with the amount of money that they are raising from the gas taxes our infrastructure is still in really poor condition. I think that if they would cut old useless programs in other areas of the government and switch those funds to the roads, given that they actually spent it on the roads, they could really improve them.
I am all for lower gas prices but I dont think that the $.10 per gallon that eliminating the gas tax would do is actually going to solve the problem. What they could do is lift the ban on offshore drilling and let the oil company's do what they do best, and that is drill for more oil. With the threat of more oil in the market OPEC and all the other oil controlling entities would have no choice but to either step up production or lower their price so that it would be more attractive for us to buy from them than it is to produce our own oil. Simple supply and demand economics.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 08:46 AM
  #32  
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^^^with the stipulation that the only companies who can drill are U.S. owned and none of it gets exported
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 09:01 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ferguson41
If you havent noticed even with the amount of money that they are raising from the gas taxes our infrastructure is still in really poor condition. I think that if they would cut old useless programs in other areas of the government and switch those funds to the roads, given that they actually spent it on the roads, they could really improve them.
I am all for lower gas prices but I dont think that the $.10 per gallon that eliminating the gas tax would do is actually going to solve the problem. What they could do is lift the ban on offshore drilling and let the oil company's do what they do best, and that is drill for more oil. With the threat of more oil in the market OPEC and all the other oil controlling entities would have no choice but to either step up production or lower their price so that it would be more attractive for us to buy from them than it is to produce our own oil. Simple supply and demand economics.
One reason for this is that the roads (and other projects) get bid to the lowest bidder. Why not do what Germany does with the autobahn---the road bed is deep, the concrete is thicker, and it is more expensive initially---but it is better and cheaper to maintian?
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 09:01 AM
  #34  
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From: the moral high ground
Originally Posted by po1911
^^^with the stipulation that the only companies who can drill are U.S. owned and none of it gets exported
Therein lies the rub.
Once the oil companies drill it, it belongs to them and goes on the world market.
You may be patriotic but, the Oil companies are a business.
They will get evey last penny they can.
You aren't going to get cut some slack because the oil happened to come from off our coast or Anwar.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 09:05 AM
  #35  
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but we can at the very least only grant contracts to U.S. companies its easy just dont let foreign companies bid
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 09:31 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by referee54
One reason for this is that the roads (and other projects) get bid to the lowest bidder. Why not do what Germany does with the autobahn---the road bed is deep, the concrete is thicker, and it is more expensive initially---but it is better and cheaper to maintian?
I completely agree with you. As long as they keep giving the contracts to the lowest bidder we are going to continue to get what we are paying for.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 10:06 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Raoul
Therein lies the rub.
Once the oil companies drill it, it belongs to them and goes on the world market.
You may be patriotic but, the Oil companies are a business.
They will get evey last penny they can.
You aren't going to get cut some slack because the oil happened to come from off our coast or Anwar.
Good, that's how capitalism is supposed to work.

I would prefer that a US oil company controls the oil, but if they don't, it still works out to our benefit. Other than US companies, the only other companies who could do it would be Total, BP, or Shell. I don't care where they ship the oil. Oil is a commodity. Any increase in supply relative to demand will lower the overall price. Because the oil is being produced on US soil (or US offshore), OUR government gets the tax revenue rather than sending it overseas. The jobs to do the drilling, support the infrastructure, etc. are also created here. Hopefully it is a US company, because the profits would be distributed among US shareholders.

Grim
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 11:26 AM
  #38  
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From: the moral high ground
Originally Posted by Grim
Good, that's how capitalism is supposed to work...
There is a component of capitalism missing here. Competition.
We could suck oil out of Anwar and all three coasts all day long and still have high prices at the pump.
Why?
Our autos don't run on oil, they run on gasoline.
In 'supply and demand' supply gets bottlenecked when our refineries are running at 100%.

And I know Hannity sounds real convincing when he waves papers in the air and screams "no refineries built in US since the Seventies" and "democrats not allowing refineries to be built".

However, the Oil Companies have closed over two dozen refineries in the last thirty years. In 2004 Shell closed a California refinery which was it's highest profit producer.
Correction, they didn't close it....they demolished it.
I wonder why they didn't just sell it?

Could it be artificial manipulation of 'supply and demand'?
It can be done when there is no competition, only collusion.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 11:29 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Raoul
There is a component of capitalism missing here. Competition.
We could suck oil out of Anwar and all three coasts all day long and still have high prices at the pump.
Why?
Our autos don't run on oil, they run on gasoline.
In 'supply and demand' supply gets bottlenecked when our refineries are running at 100%.

And I know Hannity sounds real convincing when he waves papers in the air and screams "no refineries built in US since the Seventies" and "democrats not allowing refineries to be built".

However, the Oil Companies have closed over two dozen refineries in the last thirty years. In 2004 Shell closed a California refinery which was it's highest profit producer.
Correction, they didn't close it....they demolished it.
I wonder why they didn't just sell it?

Could it be artificial manipulation of 'supply and demand'?
It can be done when there is no competition, only collusion.
Sitting on your hands does nothing. It's a true sign of weakness, and it's all because of the SIG that is lining the Dem's pockets.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 11:39 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by CrAz3D
SIG? Special Interest Groups? Like unions?
Yes, like unions, who always support Democrats. I hate that about unions.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 12:19 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Raoul
There is a component of capitalism missing here. Competition.
We could suck oil out of Anwar and all three coasts all day long and still have high prices at the pump.
Why?
Our autos don't run on oil, they run on gasoline.
In 'supply and demand' supply gets bottlenecked when our refineries are running at 100%.

And I know Hannity sounds real convincing when he waves papers in the air and screams "no refineries built in US since the Seventies" and "democrats not allowing refineries to be built".

However, the Oil Companies have closed over two dozen refineries in the last thirty years. In 2004 Shell closed a California refinery which was it's highest profit producer.
Correction, they didn't close it....they demolished it.
I wonder why they didn't just sell it?

Could it be artificial manipulation of 'supply and demand'?
It can be done when there is no competition, only collusion.
You should probably do a bit more research instead of recycling incorrect and/or outdated talking points.

Despite some refinery closings, US Refining capacity has increased over 10% since 1985 through the expansion of existing refineries.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mocleus2A.htm

There are several multi-million dollar refinery expansion projects going on right now. Expansions are much more popular than building new refineries because the environmental issues (and lawsuits) are much less problematic than a new refinery.

If you are talking about the Shell Bakersfield refinery, they originally planned to shut it down in 2004 but sold it to Flying J. As far as I know, it is still in operation.

Grim
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 12:26 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Stealth
Sitting on your hands does nothing. It's a true sign of weakness, and it's all because of the SIG that is lining the Dem's pockets.
You and I are in the same boat on this one---but ironically, two of the absolute largest SIG's are the NEA (National Education Association), and the military SIG's, as well---and you and I both, in a way, work for one or the other.

Tim C.
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 12:43 PM
  #43  
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I'm voting Democrat because: I believe if you shoot your friend in the face, you should go to jail for it. - Og
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 12:47 PM
  #44  
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From: the moral high ground
Originally Posted by Grim
You should probably do a bit more research instead of recycling incorrect and/or outdated talking points.

Despite some refinery closings, US Refining capacity has increased over 10% since 1985 through the expansion of existing refineries....
You'll have to explain the math on this one.
Since 1985...
Capacity up 10%
Demand up 25%
So they choose to close 24 refineries?
 
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Old Jul 21, 2008 | 12:59 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Raoul
You'll have to explain the math on this one.
Since 1985...
Capacity up 10%
Demand up 25%
So they choose to close 24 refineries?
Just remember, Raoul, it's all a conspiracy.
 
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