No, it's supply and demand.

 

Surely don't know the specifics, but the Clean Air Act caused a lot of closures. It was too expensive to upgrade to pass the EPAs rules as the grandfathering expired. Remember all the mom & pop gas stations? Almost all gone. Took quite a few pulp/paper mills along with it.

Dave

 

First, you were wrong about Shell Bakersfield.

Second, did you know that refinery capacity is actually increasing, or were you just assuming that is was going down because you are just repeating talking points?

Third, I don't know what your time frame is for the 24 refinery closings. What time period are you referring to? 1994 to 2001? It looks like you picked a random article off the internet without checking to see if the time period was relevant!

14 refineries closed from 1998 to 2007 but capacity has continued to increase.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0509.html

I don't know why 14 refineries closed from 1998 to 2007, but it obviously didn't have much of an impact on total output. There have been a lot of changes in the market since 1998 (from sub-$1 gas to over $4). I suspect that ultra-low sulfur diesel caused some of the closings. It was very expensive for a small refinery to make the switch.

Grim

 

Point conceded.
No talking points, just common sense. While capacity at some existing refineries expanded, the fact is that more capacity would exist if the closed refineries were still operating.
The random article was a Congressional Report, Sen Wyden. The time period was 1994-2001.

 

It isn't "common sense" because it isn't necessarily correct.

Did the refineries that closed actually produce gasoline and/or diesel, or did they produce low-grade hydrocarbon products (asphalt and coke, for example)?
Did the gasoline and/or diesel they produced meet current environmental regulations?
Did they actually close, or were some of them merged with other refineries?
Did the refineries that closed actually have a business model that allowed them to make a profit? A bankrupt refining company makes no gasoline! The little guys don't have a very high profit margin (often <5%).

Could you have picked a more relevant time period? In 2001 the average price of gas was $1.46. There have been HUGE changes in the petroleum industry since 2001!

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mg_tt_usA.htm

Grim

 

hmmm.

That's an interesting reason.





One of the many, many reasons I'm not voting democrat is because: if you demand cash and other favors for yourself and relatives, in exchange for using your congressional clout to arrange African business deals, then hide money in a box in your freezer, you should first be removed from congress and then you should go to jail for it.

 

did I miss something when did McCain start poppin caps in homies asses

 

I'm voting Democrat because: McCain refuses to be seen with the current Republican president. Wonder why. - Og

 

Not McCain. He can't lift his arms high enough to hold a rifle. - Og

 

If that's a legitimate basis to be booted out of Congress, the clean up staff would be the only people there. Unless there would be a special clause to keep the closet gay representatives in office charged with criminal offenses. That would be something. - Og

 

Coming in late on the post, but just had to add my .02!! Where I live there are probably 30 or more refineries within as many miles. The Southeast Texas area is one of the largest gas/oil producing areas in the country.......on to my point.

For a long time (15-20 years) there were no major imporvements to any of these plants, mostly maintaining and minor expansions to keep up with aging facilities. Some of these plants are still operating with the same equipment that orginally were installed when the plants were built......However, that is changing......Motiva is currently starting a plant expansion that will cost about 1.5 BILLION or more. They are doubling their refining capacity, which when completed it will be THE largest gas refining plant in the entire world. I can count at least 40 to 50 new storage tanks being built within just a 15 mile radius of the plant, for those who don't know what I am talking about, one storage tank is 200' or more feet in diameter and about 100' tall.

There are also several other refineries locally that are undergoing major projects to increase their capacity........one is spending about 900 million on the expansion project. This area is not alone, The Houston, Pasadena, etc. areas are expanding also.

I don't think capacity will be a problem, the oil companies would be happy to spend the money on improvements to their refineries.......

 

My dad works for Halliburton here in Houston. He has never seen it this busy in his 30 years, he said they do nothing but quote expansions all day.

 

I'm sure! Houston is getting really busy, I just recently changed jobs, but I was a project manager for a foundation piling contractor. It seemed like I stayed in Houston and surrounding areas as much as I was there........

They estimate 10,000 to 15,000 new workers will be moving into my area within the next few years for these expansion projects. Most of them are temporary and will leave when the job is done, but for a few years it's going to get crowded around here!!!

Talk about a housing market surge, there are new apartments poping up like weeds around here.