Did the Teacher cross the line?
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 0
From: New Port Richey, FL
As for the creationist stuff, I think that kids should be exposed to both ideas. After they're old enough and get enough information, let them make up their own mind about the whole thing.
Suspended
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,079
Likes: 0
How much do you want to bet that the kids volunteered to have their arms "burned"? I really don't understand what the problem is with having a bible in the classroom though. So much for religious freedom ... I'm sure it'd be fine if it was the Koran. I'm glad he didn't "burn" any African American children, they'd probably say it was a hate crime ...
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 0
From: Broward County, FL
How much do you want to bet that the kids volunteered to have their arms "burned"? I really don't understand what the problem is with having a bible in the classroom though. So much for religious freedom ... I'm sure it'd be fine if it was the Koran. I'm glad he didn't "burn" any African American children, they'd probably say it was a hate crime ...
Suspended
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 0
From: North of Dallas Tx
Nice try...but that phrase is not in the constitution. I dare you to find it, because you cannot. You are only regurgitating what you have heard other secularist say. The constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It says NOTHING of a separation between the two. Please read the following commentary. I want to apologize beforehand. Because I am certain it will be to your dislike
I would like to not that "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is a violation of my constitutional rights...and I am certain that you would not want to guilty of that.
Separation of Church and State - Constitution Framers Historical Context
The "Separation of Church and State" metaphor blurs the distinction between a doctrinal religion and a denominational religion. This places the doctrinal religion we have embraced in the same basket as an organized denominational religion with potential to merge with the state. The documentary evidence of the doctrinal Christian religion origin of this nation is voluminous. The Supreme Court thoroughly studied this issue, and in 1892 gave what is known as the Trinity Decision. In that decision the Supreme Court declared, "this is a Christian nation." John Quincy Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was, it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." The founders were definitely Christian for the most part. At least 90 to 95 percentage of them were practicing, Trinitarian Christians. This and the additional supporting evidence below show conclusively that the concern that motivated the framers to include the establishment clause in the constitution was definitely not fear of the doctrinal religion of Christian Theism. It was understood that Christian Theism was the default state doctrinal religion. As opposed to being something to fear, it was something believed to be vital to the success of our government. Consequently, the framers feared a state denominational religion not a state doctrinal religion! Some additional evidences that indicate Christian Theism was the national doctrinal religion are listed below:
Emblazoned over the Speaker of the House in the US Capitol are the words "In God We Trust."
The Supreme Court building built in the 1930's has carvings of Moses and the Ten Commandments.
God is mentioned in stone all over Washington D.C., on its monuments and buildings.
As a nation, we have celebrated Christmas to commemorate the Savior's birth for centuries.
Oaths in courtrooms have invoked God from the beginning.
The founding fathers often quoted the Bible in their writings.
Every president that has given an inaugural address has mentioned God in that speech.
Prayers have been said at the swearing in of each president.
Each president was sworn in on the Bible, saying the words, "So help me God."
Our national anthem mentions God.
The liberty bell has a Bible verse engraved on it.
The original constitution of all 50 states mentions God.
Chaplains have been in the public payroll from the very beginning.
Our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence, mentions God four times.
The Bible was used as a textbook in the schools.
The "Separation of Church and State" metaphor blurs the distinction between a doctrinal religion and a denominational religion. This places the doctrinal religion we have embraced in the same basket as an organized denominational religion with potential to merge with the state. The documentary evidence of the doctrinal Christian religion origin of this nation is voluminous. The Supreme Court thoroughly studied this issue, and in 1892 gave what is known as the Trinity Decision. In that decision the Supreme Court declared, "this is a Christian nation." John Quincy Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was, it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." The founders were definitely Christian for the most part. At least 90 to 95 percentage of them were practicing, Trinitarian Christians. This and the additional supporting evidence below show conclusively that the concern that motivated the framers to include the establishment clause in the constitution was definitely not fear of the doctrinal religion of Christian Theism. It was understood that Christian Theism was the default state doctrinal religion. As opposed to being something to fear, it was something believed to be vital to the success of our government. Consequently, the framers feared a state denominational religion not a state doctrinal religion! Some additional evidences that indicate Christian Theism was the national doctrinal religion are listed below:
Emblazoned over the Speaker of the House in the US Capitol are the words "In God We Trust."
The Supreme Court building built in the 1930's has carvings of Moses and the Ten Commandments.
God is mentioned in stone all over Washington D.C., on its monuments and buildings.
As a nation, we have celebrated Christmas to commemorate the Savior's birth for centuries.
Oaths in courtrooms have invoked God from the beginning.
The founding fathers often quoted the Bible in their writings.
Every president that has given an inaugural address has mentioned God in that speech.
Prayers have been said at the swearing in of each president.
Each president was sworn in on the Bible, saying the words, "So help me God."
Our national anthem mentions God.
The liberty bell has a Bible verse engraved on it.
The original constitution of all 50 states mentions God.
Chaplains have been in the public payroll from the very beginning.
Our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence, mentions God four times.
The Bible was used as a textbook in the schools.
Last edited by Shinesintx; Jul 9, 2008 at 01:22 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 0
From: Broward County, FL
Nice try...but that phrase is not in the constitution. I dare you to find it, because you cannot. You are only regurgitating what you have heard other secularist say. The constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It says NOTHING of a separation between the two. Please read the following commentary. I want to apologize beforehand. Because I am certain it will be to your dislike
I would like to not that "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is a violation of my constitutional rights...and I am certain that you would not want to guilty of that.
I would like to not that "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is a violation of my constitutional rights...and I am certain that you would not want to guilty of that.
Suspended
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: guess
ok the burning thing I need more info before passing judgment but as far as teaching creationism in the class as long as it is balanced with traditional science I don't have a problem with to much now all of you libbies have it wrong it is a freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 0
From: Broward County, FL
ok the burning thing I need more info before passing judgment but as far as teaching creationism in the class as long as it is balanced with traditional science I don't have a problem with to much now all of you libbies have it wrong it is a freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion
Suspended
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 0
From: North of Dallas Tx
I will try to work with your thickness, and yet to no avail. The principal that you speak of, is used by the Liberals and haters of CHrist. It is not law, and you yourself speak of "separation of church and state" as a principal. Principals, are not law...The constitution is.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 0
From: Broward County, FL
I will try to work with your thickness, and yet to no avail. The principal that you speak of, is used by the Liberals and haters of CHrist. It is not law, and you yourself speak of "separation of church and state" as a principal. Principals, are not law...The constitution is.
Suspended
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: guess
it is not necessarily the word you use, it is the inflection of the words you do type, any time some one says school+kids+religion most of you start dragging out the separation of church and state and blah blah blah and it all boils down to your religion shall not touch me in any way time or fashion or I sue. the way you argue the point it seems that you think you have a freedom from religion and that is not the case. just because you do not believe it does not mean I cannot. I do not see any harm in teaching both sides the religious and the secular and I will say this I am about as non religious as it gets, was not raised
in the church I still am not a church goer and I never will be I have no interest in the bible or any of the fuss and fanfare of the church or any church for that matter but I am very uneasy in the total disregard many people have against people of faith for practicing their faith
in the church I still am not a church goer and I never will be I have no interest in the bible or any of the fuss and fanfare of the church or any church for that matter but I am very uneasy in the total disregard many people have against people of faith for practicing their faith
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 0
From: Broward County, FL
it is not necessarily the word you use, it is the inflection of the words you do type, any time some one says school+kids+religion most of you start dragging out the separation of church and state and blah blah blah and it all boils down to your religion shall not touch me in any way time or fashion or I sue. the way you argue the point it seems that you think you have a freedom from religion and that is not the case. just because you do not believe it does not mean I cannot. I do not see any harm in teaching both sides the religious and the secular and I will say this I am about as non religious as it gets, was not raised
in the church I still am not a church goer and I never will be I have no interest in the bible or any of the fuss and fanfare of the church or any church for that matter but I am very uneasy in the total disregard many people have against people of faith for practicing their faith
in the church I still am not a church goer and I never will be I have no interest in the bible or any of the fuss and fanfare of the church or any church for that matter but I am very uneasy in the total disregard many people have against people of faith for practicing their faith
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
And besides.. A public school is ALSO not a place for pushing religious beliefs on kids from any standpoint. Lets be honest. Creation has ~no~ scientific evidence... Sure you will say the bible... But that was written a couple thousand years ago about when if you showed them an ipod they would start calling you god.
Stealth... If they started teaching from the Koran or Torah or about reincarnation I am sure that a good majority of the school's parents would be raising who knows what... Why not be fair to everyone and only teach stuff that can be backed up by evidence and proven?
Suspended
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 0
From: North of Dallas Tx
Well looks like this principal is used as law and thats how it should be. If you wanna learn about a religious subject, go to bible school. Not a public school where people from all religions are. Its not fair for only the Christian view of how we came here is taught. Also, i'll say this before some one else says this. Evolution should only be taught because its not from a religion. Its a scientific view. Not a religious, thats why it is taught and should be the only thing taught in public school.
As to the terminology "scientific view", both are views. The term scientific fact is a misnomer. It used to be fact that the earth was flat. We now know that it is round...but yet billions do not know that the earth is more elliptical rather than round. What is fact today, is tomorrows myth.
Suspended
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 0
From: North of Dallas Tx
So then I may conclude that public school is not a place of learning. But rather a place to accept what they are told.