Don't try to switch this around. Someone was trying to argue the Iraqi people are Better off ...

The 100-600 thousand people we're talking about aren't enemy combatants, they're Iraqi People. The people we are supposedly there to "Liberate" and "help". Many of these deaths are due to the poor conditions they're currently living in and victims of Civil War.

Bush's Words: When pressed whether he stood by that figure Wednesday, he said, "I stand by the figure a lot of innocent people have lost their life...."

It doesn't matter, I'm sure you think this war has been managed Great from the beginning, Bush and Rumsfeld could Do no Wrong, you wish Cheney would run for President...

..and the Dozens of people closest to the President that came out against him are all Crazy and Jealous... I'm not going to be a blind sheep.

 

I'm glad you think the 50,000, or 100,000, or 650,000 Iraqi deaths were all poor innocent souls. Do you honestly think these numbers are non-combatants. If you read your link it stated clearly that the "pollsters" did not ask the families if the dead were innocent or insurgents.
I've never said the war has been "managed" well, but I have said I believe it was the right thing to do. Women can vote, women can run for public office, Iraqis are not being hung for opposing Saddam any longer, children aren't being taken from their families and burned in front of them any longer... Yeah you're probably right about Iraqis not being better off since the war started.

 

In my opinion, Iraq will never have a Democracy! The different sects have been fighting for years and will continue to do so. As Stealth said, Iraqi people kill each other. As far as WMD's, yes Saddam had them and used them on his people, but that was during George H. Bush's administration. The time for W. to pull the troops and save face would have been after Saddam was captured.

 

The purpose of a military is to kill people and break things

the purpose of war is to kill alot of people and break alot of things

once you kill enough people and break enough things your enemy surrenders and is thankful you quit killing and breaking.

600,000 does not bother me in the least sadam had killed twice that while he was in power they do it to themselves more than any thing.

 

A typical Liberal Response. It's always up to the USA to Save the world from all of these bad guys.

It's the USA that has to earn the right for Women to vote all around the world. Why can't these people Earn it Themselves!

Heck, why don't you just let them all come over here. We can all learn how to speak Iraqi.

 

Remember the deadliest act of terrorism in the United States until Sept. 11, 2001 was performed by an American in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma April 19, 1995. 168 people died that day. Other random acts of terrorism were done by Theodore Kaczynski, the "Unibomber." Wacko's are in the U.S. as well as the Middle East! Will we ever really win the "War on Terrror?" Be realistic guys! We think and know life is precious, these wack jobs don't!
Homeland Security funds need to be increased, not decreased!!

 

Sure they can learn it themselves. Or, they can stew with hate, form terrorists organizations and plot to kill mass numbers of innocent American civilians.

It's popular for citizens of this country to complain about our gluttonous ways these days. We are a strong country with a lot of resources. It's not that it's up the the USA to save the world from all these bad guys. It's this countries obligation, given it's strength and resources. Its part of the price we pay for our freedom.

You really think that we ought to step back and let all these countries fend for themselves? What do you think might happen if that were the position this country took?

You are absolutely right about domestic terrorism. In fact I think that you're missing many other sources, including street gangs, and general thuggery. I see your point but it isn't just terrorist attacks on our interests on our own soil. In addiditon it's terrorist attacks on our interests abroad that warrant action. They are seeking the same result, to terrorize us, with these attacks.

On 12-07-47, 2,388 of our people were killed by terrorists in militaty uniforms. This attack was the beginning of a monumental struggle that has changed the world. On 09-11-01, the terrorists weren't wearing a military uniform. They didn't represent a country. They represent a new threat that requires new tactics to fight. It's confusing and there is a learning curve that will create errors. The other option was to do nothing. Had that been the option taken in 1947, life would be very different in this country today.

 

I thought you might have some shred of intelligence left, but you obviously do not. NEVER EVER WILL ANY OF MY COMMENTS SOUND LIBERAL. Either you don't know what a Liberal is or you are truly an idiot. You take a post and decide what you want it to mean to fit your little world and twist everything around. Just a little heads up so you can try to insult me later... I'm a CONSERVATIVE; which means I'm a REPUBLICAN. Smoke on that one!

 

I'm sorry, comments such as those are Not Conservative. Instead of a Welfare State, You and Wittom are for creating a Welfare WORLD.

Just as I don't like giving my tax dollars to people in my country that are too lazy to work, I don't want to send all my Money to Countries that are too lazy, or uninspired, to liberate and rebuild their OWN Country.

I'm sorry, it's not the responsibility of the USA to send all of our tax dollars over seas to "help" world. We Helped OURSELVES, they can do it too.. That's the TRUE Conservative Way.

I'm not a huge supporter of Ron Paul, but he's got some serious points on this Topic...

No One remember's what a True Conservative IS anymore...

 

Sooner or later people will learn what happens around the world affects us wether we like it or not. By standing back and watching things happen matters will only get worse.

A handout is a handout no matter how you slice it. Training Iraqi police and military is not a handout. Helping Iraq form a Democracy is not a handout. Giving an unemployed woman with 8 kids food stamps and free diapers when she drives a Cadillac with 24" wheels is a handout.

Sitting around and letting things happen around you is stagnation. The best defense isn't a good offense; it's burying your head in the sand and hoping you don't get seen! It's worked for Ostrich's for years... Maybe our new symbol of freedom should change from the Bald Eagle to an Ostrich!! All in favor say I.

 

What happens around the world does affect us as well as what we do and how we react to situations around the world. The world is very small these days. Forming a Democracy in Iraq is a Bush vision for Iraq, not an Iraq vision for Iraq.

 

Iraqis can't learn democracy and fairness on there own after so many years of tyrany. We have shown them the way. They are making great progress. Give them a chance. And after we do draw down, then it is on them to grow as a country. Not one person here can or will say that a democracy in that region is a bad thing. Hibbs... once again, you are so far over the top of lunacy. Your arguments are so off. Put down the CNN.... back away from the set... slowly... slowly... baaaacckkkk.........

 

Democracy in Iraq will absolutely have a different flavor. It will not look like democracy in other countries. Definitely not like our Republic. Hell, they may end up scrapping the idea altogether once we're gone. That's up to them.

One thing is for sure. We destroyed their ability to defend themselves against their neighbors; and, we can't leave until leaving doesn't mean Iran decides what Iraq looks like in the future. Right or wrong, like it or not, we are responsible for them until they can take care of themselves.

Just for the record, I don't like it either. Paying my bills every month is my least favorite task; but, the consequences of not paying them is worse than not having the money in my accounts.

 

The date was 12-07-44. That was a declaration of war by Japan. I agree, we have to fight terrorism totally different.
Our response to 9-11 was attack Iraq when we new Bin Laden was responsible. I know, the "axis of evil thing." If we are going to gain respect in the world we better get things right.

 

Your argument is flawed. First, we didn't attack Iraq over 9/11. My previous postings in this thread provide a brief summary of why we went into Iraq. The President stated repeatedly, both before and after the war started, that Hussein was not involved in 9/11. Second, we had already attacked OBL prior to entering Iraq. We had alrerady overthrown the Taliban in Afghanistan

Grim