Question – Do you have a right to know all the methods of intelligence collection and interrogation methods used on terrorist?

Your answer – Nope

My statement – I just do not nor will I ever understand your type of thought process. Exactly what do you think you have a right to know about?

Your reply – That my private information, protected by the Telecommunications Act, isn't released without my consent.



That my friend is a contradiction…

 

Is it not, under my rights and freedoms, I can post what ever I want? Why should I communicate with you via e-mail or PM's? (NSA look at me!!!! )

 

Say what?

People who leaked information during WWII were treated as spies and went to military tribunals and died by firing squad when convicted. You think our government is intrusive now? It was worse then on many levels. You don't have a clue what you are talking about, you are barely old enough to buy a beer. People who think the way you do never have solutions to the problem, you just sit and cry about it. Well guess what, we are outta tissues here and if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem

 

Well, I haven't got an answer for that. Checkmate. Congratulations.

 

While that may very well be true at least most of us are doing what we think is best for our country while a few in the minority of the country sit on the side lines and complain about the methods we try to employ to protect innocent civilians…

Must be nice for the very few minority in this country to continually complain, never attempt to come up with their own plan and have the luxury of being able to say after another few thousands, or hundreds of thousands of Americans are slaughtered ”what the hell is the government doing to protect us?”

 

Yeah, must be nice...

Then, after thousands die in this war all those liberals who avoided service or condemned our governments methods to protect Americans can run for office. I can't stand whiney babies...

 

The media has blown this up into something it's not.

Take a look at your last month's phone bill, and see what can be learned from it.

Not much.

How many times you ordered pizza?

If you called your wife on the company phone?

Without some other form of intelligence to guide the investigation, a phone record is nothing.

It's not a wiretap.

If an investigation shows that Mr. Q Terroist is making phone calls to you, then you may have a concern.

Have you looked at some peoples cell phone records. I'm talking pages and pages of numbers, but it's usually just the same numbers over and over.

The number of man hours required to sort through just one cell phone record for the last 6 months would be cost prohibitive.

Can it be done faster?

Sure. Well maybe.

But you have to have some reasonable suspicion that a crime is being commited. No one has the time to just set and stare at records and hope that something pops out.

It don't happen.

If the NSA's database is searchable by phone number, big deal. You can look most of that up on the net.

It's not something to lose sleep over.

Oh yea,

good night.

 

So would have something as simple as a stronger ****pit door, something safety experts had been asking for for years, yet Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush refused to listen, catering instead to the airline industry who didn't want to spend the money.

And then when Bush finally was backed into a corner over the issue after 9/11, the doors were mandated, only at tax payer expense.

And again, the issue isn't whether or not any of us have something to hide, the issue is the government intruding into our lives without warrant or suspicion, unless you want to argue we're all under suspicion, military or civilian.

You are indeed entitled to your opinion, but please do not be so arrogant (and arrogance is exactly what it is) as to pretend that just because you have no problems with the government you serve and what it does that other decent law abiding citizens shouldn't either. Some of us hold our freedoms a bit more dear that to sell them down the river for some imagined sense of security.

 

Last time I looked it's more than just a small minority that has a problem with this and it isn't just liberals.

There was a plan proposed years ago that would have prevented 9/11 from happening and it was ignored by four presidents.

Maybe they were too busy playing shadow games instead of using common sense.

 

Actually we all due respect you are not correct. It is just a problem for a very small minority of Americans. Look at the public polls for wire tapping and now this NSA deal. The majority of Americans don’t see any real issue with it…

Most Americans know for all intensive purposes that like it or not any one of us could be a suspect since terrorist roam around at will in small groups with absolutely no identification whatsoever. They don’t wear uniforms nor do they wear signs that let anyone know they are a terrorist.

That is a reason I have absolutely no problem with profiling but since many people don’t like that you have to suspect every single American even 80 year old women to make a very few minority (not race or religion) happy but then they still find problems with every possible solution on the table now.

As far as President Bush goes he did not ignore the terrorist problem because he was only in office for less then a year when 911 happen and prior to 911 it was always recommended to do exactly as a hijacker requested and had been proven the best method to save lives of those in the air. That was then and this is now.

I will tell you what has me scared and has for some time and that is some of the very small minority groups of liberals in this country who want to track and illegally invade the privacy of those who own guns, something that is guaranteed in the Constitution but seems to get missed everyday while they sit on TV and whine about something that very well could save tens of thousands of innocent life’s…

They continue to contradict themselves at every corner and all the while continue to assist and aid terrorist with their shames and self interest spew about nothing…

 

you guys seem to think all this "eavesdropping" is all new

its been going on for decades my friends....:santa:


its nothing new



...zap!

 

Bingo!

 

I dang near dont have the strength for this debate.

Those "patriots" who support this gross abuse of government power should be ashamed. The NSA is logging every call that is made and building a database of behaviors and patterns.

"hmmm....Vader doesn't normally call Iraq....better start listening to his calls"

"Warrant? What warrant...we don't need a warrant."

Trample on everyones' liberties for the possibility that a pattern might turn up something. These fools couldn't prevent 9/11 with all its warning signs and I'm suppose to believe that logging every call in the country will turn up something. Give me a break.

The Justice department wants to review this behavior and are told its too secret to be reviewed? PLEASE! Way to circumvent the checks and balances that are designed to protect the citizens.

If Clinton or Gore or Kerry was doing this everyone would be screaming about impeachment, their rights being removed, and flooding this board with complaints. Because Bush is doing it...."Oh he is protecting us" & "stop being a conspiracy nut" & "stop being anti-American"

Frankly I'm getting pissed at people's apathy for our rights and their blind loyalty to this administration. Just give Bush a Monica and get over it , you already are bending over and taking it with a smile anyhow.

I can't wait until the next Democratic president tries anything remotely like this stuff and I'll be there with pages of quotes from this board and "I told ya So."

My love for this country, its citizens, and its Constitution is unquestionable.

My love for freedom and liberty transcends my love for even this country. Without our freedoms and a Constitution that is adhered to, we have nothing more than a pretty Soviet Union.

If this comes off as offensive, well too bad. If it offended anyone in particular...tough.

I am not normally so direct and angry but this stuff and the mentality that supports it really gets me

 

That would be incorrect. Airline safety experts have been calling for stronger ****pit security since Reagn was in office because hijackers were becoming more erratic and it was becoming obvious that they were willing to take lives regardless of negotiations.

**** Cheney refused to even meet with those experts. And ****pit security goes directly to the reason 9/11 was possible. If they weren't able to get into the ****pit, they couldn't turn the plane into a missile, it's really that simple.

I find it rather pathetic that Bush almost immediately after 9/11 finally decided it would be prudent to install the doors at tax payer expense, not airline expense, you know the people who should be paying for it?

Personally I see this as nothing more than further attempts to erode our liberty and privacy step by step, shove a spoonful down our throats now and then until finally we wake up one day and find the man knocking on our door asking for our papers.

If you disgaree with me that's fine, but the fact that it's not just a small minority who have a problem with it (35% are strongly opposed to it and of the 65% who "don't have a problem with it" not all are "strongly in favor of it") says that there are a large number of people (including conservative republicans) who think it's going to far.

It doesn't make us any less of an American, it doesn't make us ignorant, it means we dissent from the party line, and generally dissent is what keeps the government from trampling on people.

That being said, I wish to hell I hadn't started this thread, for some reason I believed it could be discussed without insults and character assasinations.

added 30 seconds later:

come on admin, censoring "c-o-c-k-p-i-t" ???

 

Newsweek poll:

53 percent of Americans think the NSA’s surveillance program “goes too far in invading people’s privacy

57 percent said that in light of the NSA data-mining news and other executive actions, the Bush-Cheney Administration has “gone too far in expanding presidential power.