Tighten 45 screws in a hour, or lose 45 screw's a hour, a union worker is getting paid the same. It takes skill and talent to build a quailty product, some times the uion and the likes of Ford, Gm. or chrysler don't care abought quality, it's profit driven and the person assembling engines may like thier job, or if he/she hates it, than get out.

I for one have the opion Ford cares more abought advertising and Image than putting out a qualiy product.

More power in the F-150, this is a joke that's going to cost you more than it's worth, Ford could have, and should have added a extra option to the F-150...no wait...that's the Super duty line up....

 

My brother and brother-in-law both had union jobs for years. Both tried to get me to go to work with the company. It didn't make sense to me to get paid a bunch of money and have to pay dues, plus, be out of work to 2-3 months at a time during a strike. Plant closed down, both had to find other jobs. Brother was able to take retirement and get a lower paying job. Best thing to happen to brother-in-law. Makes alot more money now and runs his own crew.

I don't have a problem with the UAW workers getting paid well. I agree with Quintin, I would just like to buy a quality product and not have problems with it associated with poor workmanship.

 

You forgot to mention that while it is true that they will be cheaper to build, the price of them is not going to get cheaper.

Just because you have a bunch of 15 year old Mexican kids building them, it doesn't mean they will be any better, and certainly not less expensive.

The price never goes down, when labor is cheaper.

All this union bashing sounds a lot like class envy.

 

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True.

 

You'd be a fool to think the price will go down, in all likely hood, they just may have a chance of turning a profit if they weren't being hog tied by the unions.

'Class envy', yah right.

When the CAW president has his greedy lips to the zippered fly of the federal government in the hopes of the government giving the big three automakers MY hard earned tax dollars so that his union can save its *** from a problem they have created, I think the union bashing is absolutely justified. Unions breed inproductivity.

 

I would not count on that. Ford and the others are either losing money or breaking even. Why, because nobody, or at least most people, will not pay what Ford and the others want. Look at how Ford and the others have had to do all kinds of things to try and get rid of as many vehicles as they can.

Therefore, prices have already got cheaper but in order to actually make a profit and stay a live un-skilled union jobs like in the UAW WILL be going away. Not today, not tomorrow, but very soon. Look back at this thread in 3 – 5 years and lets talk about how many un-skilled jobs out of country.

Sure it does, its very simple as a matter of fact for any un-skilled labor to build the product correctly. It doesn’t matter if it is some 35 year old union guy or a 15 year old kid, they are both on even grounds because there are processes in place to insure things are done the same way all the time.

There is NO skill, required to put things together when the process is all laid out in front of you like at Ford. Don’t for a minute think anybody on an assembly line makes their own decision on how to do something. They may have the power to shut the line down due to a problem but that problem will arise because a process was not followed correctly and/or because there is a process that dictates “when” to shut down a line.

I can do it with ease, a kid from Burger King can do it with ease, a 15 year old kid in Mexico could also do it with ease…

Actually you have it all wrong. It has nothing to do with class envy. Class envy is when people are jealous of the rich doctor or lawyer or someone that won the lottery and living high on the hog.

What you have here are many intelligent people who understand the economics of the situation. That situation of unions destroying more then just their un-skilled labor member’s job security but other supporting functions and businesses that support what the un-skilled labor does.

Many of the products Ford buys does not come from companies that have unions and as such when that un-skilled labor moves out of country so will many of those supporting business.

We learned in school about the big industrial period in our country. Soon our children will learn about the big outsourcing of American jobs due to greed by people that shouldn’t be making much more then a kid at Burger King…

 

Dayum, Koolaid just got

Hey Koolaid, I dont think you understand, I dont expect Ford to lower their prices, hell their pretty low right now if you ask me. All I want to for Ford to regain some market share and raise plant efficiency. Rather than lowering prices, I would like to see the money thrown away to unskilled workers be put to improving qaulity assurance. Hell, let little Paco, Abdul, or whoever work on the assembly line, I can promise they would do just as good and more than likely better a job than what is being done right now. The sad thing is that the current union workers still do a bad job because they think they arent getting paid enough, where does greed stop?? This has nothing to do with class, its a matter of brainwashed greedy lazy people who will be without a job very soon. And every "raise" that the union fights for, they raise union dues accordingly, you dont think that the union is actually looking out for workers do you, the union is looking out for themselves.

 

Yeah, I was sure owned....he sure got me , didn't he.

Boy oh boy you guys are tough. I can see right now I don't stand a chance on this forum.

So, you prefer to have unskilled foreign workers doing jobs that were once held by Americans, making a living wage?

Sounds pathetic too me, but what do I know......I just got owned.

I'll keep on buying the American made auto, made by American UAW members, until they are all gone.

I'd rather over pay for less quality, then have a foreign company making money off of me. I guess that means I got owned again.

Dang, I can't win.

 

I too will continue to buy domestic car manuf., the difference is that I am willing to recognize a serious problem that could endanger my ability to buy them, so I look at the obvious causes. Most couldnt care less as long as they got a hefty pay check, they dont care if the company lives or dies.

 

First I don’t think you got owned as I am only presenting my point of view which I can guarantee you some here may not agree with. That is the American way, my opinion, your opinion, others opinion and the majority decide which way to go…

No, not for a minute do I want to see ONE American job go to some foreign worker. However, where I disagree with you, is that I do not believe un-skilled labor at Ford and others like Ford are making a “living” wage.

They are making much more then a living wage, they are making more then I believe they should be for the job they are actually doing. Is that judging other people? Yes it is and we do it all the time, I do it, you do it, we all do it, and anyone that states they don’t do it is a complete liar.

Here’s a test to prove what I mean:

With a choice between paying $2.30 for a gallon (87) of gas, and $3.30 a gallon (87) which would you chose to pay?

Let’s add this to the above, for $2.30 a gallon you pump it yourself, for $3.30 you pay some 15 year old kid to pump your gas. Now which price will you pay?

You can apply the same example above to the un-skilled labor on the assembly lines at Ford. For every $1.00 per hour they make it raises the price of the vehicle. There is no way around that fact.

Let me ask one more question, when you buy a new Ford do you pay full retail price, the price on the sticker? If not you have just chosen to reduce the pay of the assembly line workers at Ford, or you at least agree that are not completely worth what they are currently getting paid otherwise you wouldn’t have an issue with paying full sticker price for a Ford vehicle…

 

Since when has the ****tastic UAW had a say in engine design and specs?

John

 

Let me be the first A-hole to say that "I wouldn't get out of bed for $25/hr"

At the same time, I respect the fact that people have to make a living and anyone that's willing to work, union or nonunion will always get respect from me.

I have a good friend that works at Tropicana, the OJ plant is here where I live. He is a line mechanic for the bottling plant. He works the third shift and makes $30 something per hour. He also drinks beer and plays pool most days when he should sleep or so he says. That's because he can SLEEP at work at night since "the equipment never breaks down" and "he has to be written up three times, if he gets caught sleeping at work and go before a review commitee to finally get canned" this is all "in their union contract". I imagine his attitude has something to do with the price of Tropicana OJ.

There is probably another 100 or so people at that plant alone that does the same thing he does. Not to mention the employees are all banging each other, and taking two years off for a cut finger or something with pay thanks to workman's comp or scamming something somewhere. They have learned that they are invincible and can prop up on the union.

On the other hand, I don't think many people would have a problem with the UAW drunks making $100 per hour. If, warranty claims for shotty assembly were a thing of the past. Things like loose squeaky interior parts, misrouted wiring harnesses, and air or water leaks. It would also help if US companies would design appealing vehicles that people just gotta have.

Finally, not all union workers are drunken trailer trash, just enough of them are. For the ones that show up, and are genuine people/employees, and grateful for what you get. You have my blessing.

As far as more HP for 2009, I agree with whoever said "too little too late". And diesel is the wave of the future, I think within the next five years "biodiesel" will be perfected and a network will begin. It is the closest thing to gasoline as far as pumping and energy per gallon. If it is soy based, it will create a whole new industry with almost no pollution.

 

A 'living wage' is not $25+ an hour to screw vehicles together.

What pisses me off more is that once your beloved Union screws you and or goes away and your ineffecient former-Union butt goes down to the unemployment line and takes a cut of MY hard earned money in the form of taxes, paid into the unemployment fund.

 

What?

What does the job have to do with what is described as a living wage?

Cleaning toilets, Lawyer, Plumber or cutting grass..........a job is a job. What ever you make on any particular job has nothing to do with what a living wage is.

 

I figure my opinion is just a valid as yours so here goes. The factory work is very repetitive and I wouldn't do it. I'm from the car building state and all we had in the town I 'm from is factories. There is no way I would do that work. Just so we're clear I would not work in a factory. The repetitive nature of the work would drive me nuts. The work is not worth the $25 the workers are being paid. If you are going to say that the work is dangerous so the workers need to be paid more. Fine then give police officer's, firemen, and military members a large raise.

I remember working in a jail in northern Michigan, where many big three employees would vacation. Most of the people we booked in were from Detroit and worked for one of the three. While being booked and during thier stay they would gladly inform us that we were working too hard, to be union. Just for the reocrod the things these people were being arrested for typically went unnoticed or they would receive a small fine in the lower part of the state. Needless to say they were minor issues, but since we didn't have a high crime rate people were arrsted for the most minor infraction. Since it was a small community many of the people who were booked in were friends of friends. The point of this is that many would laugh at the ease of their work and the size of their paychecks typically follwed with, "for unskilled labor."

I'm not whining about their pay, I could have moved to one of the towns with an assembly plant and worked in a factory, but as alluded to earlier I won't work in a factory.

I won't go to the point of stating they need to get rid of the unions. I've been there and done that, it ain't pretty. The unions need to get real on the wages and benefits paid to un-skilled labor. Protect the employees, but use common sense for the pay.