Why Anakin? Why? (Last Star Wars Thread)
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Bighersh Alter-Ego
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: 33.02N / 96.66W
Yeah- it's funny how someone has your number and there just isn't anything you can do about it...
Obi Wan defeated:
1.) Darth Maul
2.) General Grevious
3.) Anakin Skywalker
But, Count Dooku handed his butt to him, on a copper platter, twice. Yet, Anakin defeated Dooku, only to be defeated- at the height of his power- by Obi-Wan.
It kinda reminds me of one night when my roommate (Holman), and one the guys from the platoon (Naugler), the three of us whom each thought we were Mortal Kombat Masters, played each other on Sega Genesis (The only version that had the blood) for about 2 hours.
Holman and I played each other often so usually, we'd split it about 50/50, but that night- I could not beat Holman to save my life. So, we had a Trinity thing going. I couldn't defeat Holman, but Naugler couldn't defeat me. Holman was undefeated by me, but could not defeat Naugler. And, Naugler could whip Holman, but didn't have a prayer against me. We had each other's number- until finally- finally I managed to beat Holman.
So, I was the only one who had beaten the other two. But at the end of the day, we were all quite adept at Mortal Kombat, but there was something about our styles that one could not resist, but stood no chance against the other... That seems to be what happened with Obi Wan...
It may have been a fight if Anakin went after Grevious and Obi Wan had gone after Dooku.
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One of the guys at work has allegedly read all the stories that supposedly take place after the death of Darth Vader & The Emperor, and told me how Anakin Solo (Leiah & Han Solo's children) ended up being more powerful than Luke Skywalker or Anakin Skywalker.
He also said the hard-back book told how Palpatine used his power to slow Dooku down (without Dooku knowing it) and increase Anakin's power through rage, so Anakin would be faster and could defeat Dooku... I read the paperback version of Episode 3, so I can't argue the truthfulness of that- but seeing how readily Dooku dispatched Anakin & Obi Wan the first time they met- it seems plausible...
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By the way, in Episode one, there were two Darth's at the same time. Darth Maul & Darth Sidious.
Obi Wan defeated:
1.) Darth Maul
2.) General Grevious
3.) Anakin Skywalker
But, Count Dooku handed his butt to him, on a copper platter, twice. Yet, Anakin defeated Dooku, only to be defeated- at the height of his power- by Obi-Wan.
It kinda reminds me of one night when my roommate (Holman), and one the guys from the platoon (Naugler), the three of us whom each thought we were Mortal Kombat Masters, played each other on Sega Genesis (The only version that had the blood) for about 2 hours.
Holman and I played each other often so usually, we'd split it about 50/50, but that night- I could not beat Holman to save my life. So, we had a Trinity thing going. I couldn't defeat Holman, but Naugler couldn't defeat me. Holman was undefeated by me, but could not defeat Naugler. And, Naugler could whip Holman, but didn't have a prayer against me. We had each other's number- until finally- finally I managed to beat Holman.
So, I was the only one who had beaten the other two. But at the end of the day, we were all quite adept at Mortal Kombat, but there was something about our styles that one could not resist, but stood no chance against the other... That seems to be what happened with Obi Wan...
It may have been a fight if Anakin went after Grevious and Obi Wan had gone after Dooku.
---------------------------------
One of the guys at work has allegedly read all the stories that supposedly take place after the death of Darth Vader & The Emperor, and told me how Anakin Solo (Leiah & Han Solo's children) ended up being more powerful than Luke Skywalker or Anakin Skywalker.
He also said the hard-back book told how Palpatine used his power to slow Dooku down (without Dooku knowing it) and increase Anakin's power through rage, so Anakin would be faster and could defeat Dooku... I read the paperback version of Episode 3, so I can't argue the truthfulness of that- but seeing how readily Dooku dispatched Anakin & Obi Wan the first time they met- it seems plausible...
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By the way, in Episode one, there were two Darth's at the same time. Darth Maul & Darth Sidious.
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From: 34.509°N & 114.326°W
Originally Posted by cia-agent
I promise guys- this is the last one- from me anyway...
Buy your own Lightsabre: (People I know have done it; grown men, even...)
OK, I'm not understanding how Anakin got turned to the dark side so easy. I realize he had a thirst for power, but he shoudl have also had an appetite for revenge. After all, the Sith had caused the death of many of his acquaintances, a Sith had cut off his hand (Dooku), a Sith was behind the "Droid Army" (Sidious), a Sith had killed his masters, master (Darth Maul), and- once he found out Palpatine was a Sith, it should have been clear that Palpatine was fighting, essentially, himself- in a calculated war and he was indeed guilty of treason having been the head of the senate, and undermining it at the same time.
All of this was right in his face, and he closed his eyes to it, and became Darth Sidious' apprentice. How? Why? For Padme?
I mean, when the Emporer mentioned his "wife" but Anakin hadn't told him he was married, and when he called her by name- Anakin should have known the Emporer coudl read his thoughts. In fact, he should have assumed those thoughts of Padme's death could have been implanted in his mind by the Emporer.
Yet, in the face of all that- he still turned his back on the Jedi, killed all the Jedi at the temple- including the younglings; then went and killed the Viceroy, and his minions (Which I didn't really have a problem with... But the younglings?)
I realize stuff had piled up on him. The council wouldn't make him a Jedi Master (Even though he was the youngest memeber to ever sit on the council), He felt like he was more powerful than all the Jedi (Although he had potential, I think he'd have had his hands full against Windu or Yoda), Padme was pregnant, the Jedi asked him to spy on Palpatine and Palpatine essentially, had him spying on the Jedi. It was a lot.
But, in one day- to turn your back on everything you have been taught over the last 20 years- is amazing. It would have been much better if Anakin had been defeated by the Emporer and rather than be killed- he turned his life over. But, just to roll-over like he did....
What do you guys think? Everytime I watch it, it seems more & more far-fetched than anyone would give up like that; for any reason.
Buy your own Lightsabre: (People I know have done it; grown men, even...)
OK, I'm not understanding how Anakin got turned to the dark side so easy. I realize he had a thirst for power, but he shoudl have also had an appetite for revenge. After all, the Sith had caused the death of many of his acquaintances, a Sith had cut off his hand (Dooku), a Sith was behind the "Droid Army" (Sidious), a Sith had killed his masters, master (Darth Maul), and- once he found out Palpatine was a Sith, it should have been clear that Palpatine was fighting, essentially, himself- in a calculated war and he was indeed guilty of treason having been the head of the senate, and undermining it at the same time.
All of this was right in his face, and he closed his eyes to it, and became Darth Sidious' apprentice. How? Why? For Padme?
I mean, when the Emporer mentioned his "wife" but Anakin hadn't told him he was married, and when he called her by name- Anakin should have known the Emporer coudl read his thoughts. In fact, he should have assumed those thoughts of Padme's death could have been implanted in his mind by the Emporer.
Yet, in the face of all that- he still turned his back on the Jedi, killed all the Jedi at the temple- including the younglings; then went and killed the Viceroy, and his minions (Which I didn't really have a problem with... But the younglings?)
I realize stuff had piled up on him. The council wouldn't make him a Jedi Master (Even though he was the youngest memeber to ever sit on the council), He felt like he was more powerful than all the Jedi (Although he had potential, I think he'd have had his hands full against Windu or Yoda), Padme was pregnant, the Jedi asked him to spy on Palpatine and Palpatine essentially, had him spying on the Jedi. It was a lot.
But, in one day- to turn your back on everything you have been taught over the last 20 years- is amazing. It would have been much better if Anakin had been defeated by the Emporer and rather than be killed- he turned his life over. But, just to roll-over like he did....
What do you guys think? Everytime I watch it, it seems more & more far-fetched than anyone would give up like that; for any reason.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 525
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From: Rochester NY
Originally Posted by cia-agent
Yeah- it's funny how someone has your number and there just isn't anything you can do about it...
Obi Wan defeated:
1.) Darth Maul
2.) General Grevious
3.) Anakin Skywalker
But, Count Dooku handed his butt to him, on a copper platter, twice. Yet, Anakin defeated Dooku, only to be defeated- at the height of his power- by Obi-Wan.
He also said the hard-back book told how Palpatine used his power to slow Dooku down (without Dooku knowing it) and increase Anakin's power through rage, so Anakin would be faster and could defeat Dooku... I read the paperback version of Episode 3, so I can't argue the truthfulness of that- but seeing how readily Dooku dispatched Anakin & Obi Wan the first time they met- it seems plausible...
------------------------
By the way, in Episode one, there were two Darth's at the same time. Darth Maul & Darth Sidious.
Obi Wan defeated:
1.) Darth Maul
2.) General Grevious
3.) Anakin Skywalker
But, Count Dooku handed his butt to him, on a copper platter, twice. Yet, Anakin defeated Dooku, only to be defeated- at the height of his power- by Obi-Wan.
He also said the hard-back book told how Palpatine used his power to slow Dooku down (without Dooku knowing it) and increase Anakin's power through rage, so Anakin would be faster and could defeat Dooku... I read the paperback version of Episode 3, so I can't argue the truthfulness of that- but seeing how readily Dooku dispatched Anakin & Obi Wan the first time they met- it seems plausible...
------------------------
By the way, in Episode one, there were two Darth's at the same time. Darth Maul & Darth Sidious.
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Bighersh Alter-Ego
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: 33.02N / 96.66W
In the book- he wasn't trying to out-maneuver Anakin- he was trying to go places Anakin couldn't follow so the lava would do the job he didn't want to- and that was to kill Anakin....
Had I been Obi Wan, betrayed by Anakin, combined with the fact that he had killed younglings (YOUNGLING's ANAKIN), and the tried to kill me. I'd have used the force and pushed him on into the lava...
He could have saved himself some misery...
Also, how was the emporer such a bad-*** with that sabre? When did he have a chance to practice? Then again, it was said he was as old as, if not older than Yoda... I guess over a couple hundred years training, you don't really forget...
Had I been Obi Wan, betrayed by Anakin, combined with the fact that he had killed younglings (YOUNGLING's ANAKIN), and the tried to kill me. I'd have used the force and pushed him on into the lava...
He could have saved himself some misery...
Also, how was the emporer such a bad-*** with that sabre? When did he have a chance to practice? Then again, it was said he was as old as, if not older than Yoda... I guess over a couple hundred years training, you don't really forget...
Last edited by cia-agent; Nov 9, 2005 at 02:47 PM.
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Posts: 525
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From: Rochester NY
Originally Posted by cia-agent
In the book- he wasn't trying to out-maneuver Anakin- he was trying to go places Anakin couldn't follow so the lava would do the job he didn't want to- and that was to kill Anakin....
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,316
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Originally Posted by fatman66
And he succeeded, he didn't kill Anakin, he crippled him and left the lava to finish him, but he did fight smart, can't bring yourself to kill someone (even if that someone wants to take your head) but have to stop them? Play to your strengths and don't play their game. In a room with limited room to manuever and nothing to get in the way, Anakin eventaully finishes Obi Wan off. Look at the fight on the Death Star, They both knew he couldn't over power Vader and that he wasn't going to be able to out manuever him this time so Obi Wan let Vader strike him down, he knew he'd had a good run and would still be able to help Luke, but tell me that if he had the choice he wouldn't have lived to help Luke along his path to becoming a Jedi.
Vader didn't beat him. Obiwan gave up when the stormtroopers surrounded him.
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Bighersh Alter-Ego
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From: 33.02N / 96.66W
Originally Posted by J-150
Vader didn't beat him. Obiwan gave up when the stormtroopers surrounded him.
And, his body vanished either right before, or right after Vader struck "at" him...
Knowing what we know now- yes, Obi Wan could have possibly helped devlop Luke. But, in 1977, I'd have said no, he was just too old to effectively train Luke... Who would he spar with?
Back-tracking to Episode III, that's another reason the fight lasted so long. Anakin & Kenobi sparred each other regularly, and knew each other's style, strength & weaknesses. That's why it was hard for either to get the upper-hand on the other, strictly through swordsmanship. But, Anakin was supposedly second only to Yoda when it came to the light sabre... He looked like he knew a thing or two when he had the two sabres in Episode II, but- in seconds, he was back down to one...
Last edited by cia-agent; Nov 9, 2005 at 03:04 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 525
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From: Rochester NY
Originally Posted by cia-agent
And, his body vanished either right before, or right after Vader struck "at" him...
Knowing what we know now- yes, Obi Wan could have possibly helped devlop Luke. But, in 1977, I'd have said no, he was just too old to effectively train Luke... Who would he spar with?
Back-tracking to Episode III, that's another reason the fight lasted so long. Anakin & Kenobi sparred each other regularly, and knew each other's style, strength & weaknesses. That's why it was hard for either to get the upper-hand on the other, strictly through swordsmanship. But, Anakin was supposedly second only to Yoda when it came to the light sabre... He looked like he knew a thing or two when he had the two sabres in Episode II, but- in seconds, he was back down to one...
Knowing what we know now- yes, Obi Wan could have possibly helped devlop Luke. But, in 1977, I'd have said no, he was just too old to effectively train Luke... Who would he spar with?
Back-tracking to Episode III, that's another reason the fight lasted so long. Anakin & Kenobi sparred each other regularly, and knew each other's style, strength & weaknesses. That's why it was hard for either to get the upper-hand on the other, strictly through swordsmanship. But, Anakin was supposedly second only to Yoda when it came to the light sabre... He looked like he knew a thing or two when he had the two sabres in Episode II, but- in seconds, he was back down to one...
Think about the fight scene with Dooku in Episode II, Obi Wan tells Anakin to wait and they'll attack Dooku in a coordianted two on one, Anakin rushes in and things go badly. Had he listened to Obi Wan, they would have had a much better chance. Again Obi Wan recognized his strengths and weaknesses and wanted to fight smart. Obi Wan was an excellent strategist and tactician, Vader/ Anakin never was (note that dosen't mean he wasn't a BMF). If you have ever read the Heir to the Empire trilogy Grand Admiral Thrawn and others are sort of contemputous of Vader's tactical/ strategic ability. He was so powerful with the Force, he never had to be a good tactician or strategist. Could he be clever, yes, but he was much more effective at just using his abilites to overpower. Even grand Moff Tarkin was a lot more clever than Vader, he got Lie to rat out a rebel base with clever threats when Vader's torture failed. Anakin/ Vader was kind of like the athlete who was always so gifted, it never mattered if he trained hard or had good technique, his gifts made up for it. Lesser athletes had to work harder and smarter. It's a good parallel between Obi Wan and Anakin.
Edit: this is great fun, I love talking Star Wars/ Star trek with cia agent, J-150 and Vader, these guys knows their stuff! Isn't this more fun that arguing over politics all day?
Last edited by fatman66; Nov 9, 2005 at 03:27 PM.
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Bighersh Alter-Ego
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From: 33.02N / 96.66W
Originally Posted by fatman66
Edit: this is great fun, I love talking Star Wars/ Star trek with cia agent, J-150 and Vader, these guys knows their stuff! Isn't this more fun that arguing over politics all day?
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I have never read (Or heard of) that trilogy by name: I know of books that exist that pick up the timeline after Episode VI... The video game "Jedi Outcast" is supposed to be beyond those book as well...
I assume the one you mention is after Episode VI since it's called "Heir to the Empire"? If so, how was Vader involved?
I know Gov. Tarkin, who died on the first Death Star, (And the other Governors for that matter) did not like being bossed around by Vader, because Vader, in there eyes, had no badge of office, no "rank" so to speak. He was just the Emporer's side-kick.
But, no one was going to complain- not out loud anyway- and be choked to death by Vader- from no matter how far he was away... That was funny as He!!. He was choking the one "Admiral" while talking to the other on the view screen. They must have thought he was some sort of witch doctor...
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From: Pikesville, MD
Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and Hand of Thrawn was a trilogy written by Timothy Zahn and they were great. Vader was not in the story at all as he was already dead but they were great.
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From: Rochester NY
Actually there are five books by Timothy Zahn that are great, the Heir to the Empire Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, and the Last Command) which I assume were sanctioned by Lucas and could be his vision for Episodes VII-IX. they are about 10 years post Endor I think. 10 years post the Heir to the Empire is Spectre of the Past and Hand of Thrawn, these are great as well. Check them out.
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Bighersh Alter-Ego
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From: 33.02N / 96.66W
Originally Posted by jamzwayne
Why cant we have all these books made into a bunch of animated movies into a box set?
Then we could have all the info in one box set. I'm lazy
Then we could have all the info in one box set. I'm lazy
By the Grace of God, I have gotten through 103 semester-hours of college, and I have yet to read a book cover to cover... Or, chapter to chapter for that matter... I just don't have the time...
But, the paperback Star Wars was good, and short (187 pages), in large Font... Within 10 visits to teh toilet, I had it read, cover to cover...
