My stepdad hunted bear with a bow once....saw a bear, looked at the bow and arrow and said 'eff this' and left. I personally want to do it! Of course I'll have a big bore handgun nearby in case of an emergency, but I still want to do it!

 

Ehh, I use my Remington .270, Winchester pump with 140 gr ballistic tips for about anything larger than say a ground hog. Yea your right a 300 mag would be the mac daddy and would bring one down but then again a .22-250 or a .22-270 would bring one down too! I have taken wild boar with both the .270 pump also the Ruger .22-270 and once even a .357 revolver.
I have yet to take a bear but plan to sometime in the near future. When I do then I will use my .270! When all is said and done this one gun and I will have brought down every mammal game in North America, then off to Europe and Africa so we "the .270 and I" can begin to take on the rest of the worlds game.

 

When you go to Africa, you'll need a second rifle. The .270 is a fine cartridge, capable of stopping all North American game, but you may want a little more oomph for the big boys of Africa....

.375 H&H Magnum comes to mind.

 

I have a Marlin 30-30 Model 336W Lever Action rifle and a Remington .308 pump rifle. They are both target and animal destroyers.

 

Don't mess wif da Marlins. Loves me my 336. It's a tad on the heavy side for lugging around all day, but it's not as heavy as my VLS when I leave the sling at home...D'OH!

 

Yea like I'll ever really have the time and money to travel that far to hunt. If I ever do it would likely be 30+ years from now. By that time I'll probably have the barrel shot out of this little Remington. I would take something bigger anyway.

 

Ok, I'll bite I personally think that a .270 is marginal at best for a bear, and should not be used on anything larger than a medium sized black bear. This is not a knock on the .270 at all. It is one of the few GREAT rounds that exist is a sea of good rounds. The reason that I say a .270 is not quite enough for bears is the size of the wound channel. It has plenty of power, more than adaquate penetration but the bullet is only .277" in diameter. A bear has a lot of fat in the skin, this will clog up the wound and slow down/stop the bleading. Now you have a wounded and much more dangerous bear, not a good thing. Also consider that a bear has bigger, heaver bones and thicker skin than deer etc. This means that you will need to use a much stiffer bullet to penetrate this compounds the problem of too small wound channel. If you switch to a softer bullet you risk fragmentation at close ranges resulting in a flesh wound once again you end up with a wounded bear, not good. This goes for all .30 rounds also. In fact most reloading manuals state this in the notes. I would recomend something with a bullet diameter of at least .338". I am not saying that you need a .458 Win Mag to drop a bear, something like a lever acton .35 Remmington would be perfect at short ranges. Also consider a 12Ga or 20Ga shotgun with slugs, these are excelent at shorter ranges. Now I am sure I will get a horde of responses that describe bull elephants being killed at 500yds with a .22LR so a .270 would be more than overkill on any bear. I am not one to argue expecially when it is your skin on the line. I am a firm believer that a bear should be treated much differantly than a deer, elk, moose etc. Bears are predators at the top of their food chain. I d@mn sure don't want to become part of the food chain just because I wanted to prove that I could make a small gun perform in the place of a larger gun.

Also consider the fact that the original poster stated that they were not a hunter. I take that to mean that they don't know much about guns and vital organ location. A marginal sized round takes much more skill to perform properly, wouthout knowing where and how to place the shot for a clean kill the risk factor greatly increases. A poorly placed shot on a large black bear or even worse a brown bear could result in a wounded bear charging. This is something that I certainly do not want to ever face.

As for hogs, .22LR and head shots. As long as you don't shoot them head on where the bullet could glance off, the hog will go down.

Joe

 

I went hog hunting with some guys one time and they just hog tied the things. It was one of the craziest experiences of my life. I was the one running the video camera while they were wrestling the hog. That was until they yelled that they needed some help. They had a pit bull as one of the bite dogs and I will never forget that dog trying to get at the hog once it was tied and sitting on the back of the four wheeler.

 

Wookie, You wont get any trash talk from me... You have small bore guys and you have large bore guys. Is a small bore "prime" for bear? NO most defiantaly not "Prime". Will it kill a bear? YES it defiantly will. I think it would be fun for me personally to take one down with a .22-250 or .22-270... (Maybe someday.)

Out of large bore or small bore. Which one is going to be affordable for him to shoot a case of shells or more for practice before he goes after this bear? Also which is going to be more versatile for him on other varments too? For example a Coyote. Yea you can kill a coyote with a .338 but if it is running... a large bore is 1000-1500 Feet per second slower than a small bore. So then you will have to lead (aim ahead of) the Coyote several inches more with a large bore than with a small bore. Thus increasing the chance of missing. After a few misses a novice will start to become discouarged and lose confidence in thier abilities.

I did ask him what his shooting experince level was and If he had any experince with large bore rifles. To which he has not replied yet. But since he is looking for "A" gun for emergenices. I'm going to say this is his one and only rifle and has little to no experince shooting.

A .270 or other small bore will shoot flatter allowing him to make a longer range shot with out having to compensate for distance. Plus are less effected by wind so he won't have to worry about windage so much either. Keeping him a safe distance away, giving him time to squezze 1 or two more rounds off if something does go arey and the bear dosen't drop on the first one. As far as the penetration of a small bore like a .270. Yea the downside is you do have to look at the flight path of the bullet to make sure there is not a small branch that it might hit. You have to worry about that some with large bores but they will blast throu some obstacles easier with less richoet to knock them off target. In short it is typically better to start out with small bores do to less complications while shooting. Especially if he is not experinced then he won't want to be trying to think of windage and bullet drop etc. etc.
Just has to make sure there is nothing inbetween the barrel tip and the target.. squezze trigger, and watch it fall. Making small bores more suitable for a novice.

As far as bullet selection.. No matter what he gets I would recomend a Nosler Jacketed Ballastic tip. There will be a small entry wound with either a small or large bore. But with these, since they dont expand untill they hit bone or muscle they allow the bullet to maintain velocicty until it reaches vitals. Then it will expand and rip it's heart plus one lung out. Even with a small bore .270.

But maybe we are both wrong and since he has such a large diversity in targets that he may need to take down with this gun. Then maybe something like a 300 Mag with 150 gr NJBT's would be more suitable for his needs.?. Mediocre speed, mediocre punch. Best of both worlds!

 

Ahem, pardon me while I get on this soap box....don't shoot at running game! Backdrops change quickly when something is moving, expecially running, and I for one would hate to pick off a little kid playing in his back yard because I shot at a running animal.


Jupms....PLF That is all.

 

95% of the deer i have shot were running, if u arent going to shoot at running deer u are going to go home with an empty stomach. U just have to know your terrain and shoot straight.

Dan.

 

Notes: I have had many beers before reading this so if it does not make sence kill a sixer and things will be much clearer.

The F key on my keyboard sometimes does not work, if a word looks wrong add "f"s until is is right.

Now that that is out of the way, I am neither a small or big bore guy. I am a right tool for the job sort of man. If I need a 10mm wrench I buy a 10mm, not a cresent wrench or a 3/8 and hope it works. That being said I have never heard of a .22-270 and neither have any of my reloading manuals. Also when you say .338 I assume that you are refering to a .338 Win Mag. This is because the reloading manual in front of me has 8 .338 rounds listed, with .338 Win Mag being the most popular. In the manual I am looking at the fastest .22-250 round listed is the 40gr bullet with a top speed of 4256fps. It is important to note that the largest game that the maker (Barnes) recomends using this for is a coyote. At 200 yds the published energy is a lousy 851 ft-lb. If you believe that the MINIMUM recomended energy for a whitetail deer is 1000 ft-lb you can very quickly see just how inadaquate tis cartrage is for bear. This is also based on a moly-coated bullet to make the muzzle velocity several hundred feet per second faster. On to the .338 Win Mag, the fastest load listed is the 160gr at 3356fps with a 200yd energy of 2597ft-lb. This is a differance of only 900fps at the muzzle. If you look at the ballistic charts you will very quickly see that heavier bullets bleed off speed much slower than light bullets. So the down range speed of the heavier bullet is often much higher than a ligher bullet.

Please don't shoot a bear with a .22 bullet. Unless you head shoot, you will have a non-existant blood trail and a horible death for a bear. I believe that you owe the animal that you hunt a swift death with as little suffering as possible.

Now to the gun question, he stated that they were nuiscance bears. I take this to mean that they are in his backyard. So long range performance means nothing. He is in Canada, so the bears have a chance to get da*n big. This being true, I would want something that would hit a bear hard, and kill him fast with one shot. This screams 12ga slug. Another gun I forgot about is the .358 Win. This cartridge is a .308 Win necked up to hold a larger bullet. Mild recoil, good wound channel this is near the perfect round. The only problem is that it never cought on and ammo might be hard to find.

Joe

 

You can't find a deer that's standing still or just meandering about? Shooting straight is not the problem or question, firing off rounds at a running deer isn't the smartest thing to do....and I did it once. That was after drilling him and he tried to run off. I was at least firing down and into woods. I've been hunting when the neighbor started shooting at LORD knows what at 0530....pitch fawkin black and from across the ravine....leaves at our feet were rustling. Ended up hiding behind a large beech tree until light. I've also seen people inadvertantly move into the line of fire AND had the misfortune to hunt with some JA yahoo who fired OVER MY DAMN HEAD at a dove. I am not a fan of people shooting anything while moving except feathered prey. To each his own, I prefer to hunt alone now anyhow....but I'm always waiting for some bubba to send one my way inadvertantly while 'hunting'.

 

I had taken some perkasit before posting now I am very buzzed ontop of it so I hope this makes since.

Joe,
You are absolutly right on atleast 2 counts... One being the 12 GA with 3" chamber might be his all around best choice. 2 Being that I cant not find anything on a reallly quick google search to show you the 22-270 either to show you. SO I will have to go dig out one of my old shooter charts and scan it in, maybe tomarrow though. I know I didn't dream it... I dont think anyway. lol
I dont like high power 22 becasue they are to sensitve to everything. I witnessed my buddies 22-250 hit a rain drop and desintegrate from it one time while we were target practicing. We were shooting paper off sand bags on a welded steel bench at only 150 yards, and the bullet never made it to the paper? It was wide open so that was the only obstacle we could come up with that it hit.

I wouldnt advise shooting anything in the head at any range with a high power 22. It would disinegrate on impact. Likely wouldnt even break the skin. Any lead in the heart will kill and if you shoot broad side then you have a good chance at it making it there.

I have only lost one game in my life and that was a deer when I was 15. I was hunting with a marlin 33-30 and it went through his chest and into a Does gut that was standing behind him. I was out till 3'0clock the next morning trying to find her, came home slept for 2 hours then skpped school to spend the entire next day looking for her. I was not raised to leave anything lay! I was raised you eat what you kill. Trust me... Dad made me eat crow when I was a kid, also made me eat a non game bird when he found out that I had killed it with my sling shot. The only creature on this earth that I will kill on purpose and not eat is a snake or rat! I dont have a problem with poachers if thay are hunting to feed thier families. I have a bigger problem with trophy hunters. If I catch someone cutting antlers and the back straps off a deer and leaving the rest lay I will turn them in in a heart beat!

As far as the right tool theory... Yes you are right thats why I, just like you, and any other hunter has a wide range of guns from rim fires to center fires and shotguns from .410's-10ga with a wide range of chamber sizes and chokes. But he is not wanting to go out and buy a whole tool set, He does not wish to be a hunter, he is wanting A gun. "A" being singular.

You are looking at one small picture, only one section of his question.

Do what?
I'm pretty drunk so maybe I didn't read that right.
Nope I read it right...

Yea I looked at them and this is what I seen!
Pay attention to the drop then try and tell a novice shooter that he can shoot further with a .338. Yea it still has more power further away but gravity + physics says it will drop faster. After 500 yards the 338 falls of the chart while the 22-250 hangs in the red till 1200 yards. By then its like being flipped in the head with a penny... But it does make the trip.

22-250 with off the shelf Winchester ballistic silver tips:
4150 fps
1530 ft/lbs at the muzzel

at 100 yards
3591 FPS
1146 ft/lbs
with 0" of drop

jump to 300 yards
2658 FPS
628 ft/lbs
with -4.2" of drop

500 yards
1893fps
318 ft/lbs
with -6.1" of drop

.338 Win. Mag with off the shelf Winchester ballistic silver tips:
2950 fps
3864 ft/lbs at the muzzel

100 yards
2724 fps
3294ft/lbs
with 0" of drop

300 yards
2303 fps
2355
7.1" of drop

500 yards
1922 fps
1640 ft/lbs
10.3" of drop (Translation: aim at the tree tops to maybe hit your target at this range... LOL)

Thats according to the Winchester Ammunition 1998 Dealers Product Guide. Now that info is a few years old but I find it hard to belive that either, much less both rounds perform worse today than they did then. Typically most products improve each year.

 

As far as if he needs long or short range.. We dont know he hasnt replied to those questions that I asked him right after he asked which gun to get.

We probably scared him off from wanting a gun altogether. We might have actually shot ourself in the foot by aiding in losing our heritage one person at a time. Because we are arguing based on our own speculations. My back yard is 1/2 mile long (8 acres) my front yard is 2 acres about 100 yards. My brother has a 40 acre yard set in the middle of two thousand acres... We dont know what his situation is.. I was kind of waiting for his responce to those questions before barfing information out onto him. Non of our conversation will mean anything to him. He may not know what FPS, MV, GR .338, .22-250, .30-06, .270 or anything means... So now he is likely more confused and more frustrated than before because of us!

Or he got to the store, couldnt remember any of the calibers mentioned thus far, seen a .22lr remembered it being mentioned somewhere along the line, it was cheap so he got that and has now become bear food.