Found this link on another forum that was having the same argument.

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4....Pentagon.html

 

Well, having spent the last 10 years in Special Operations overseas, stateside and many other hush, hush places...let me clarify something.

First off, both planes that hit the WTC's did have evidence...landing gears, window sections...etc. I am sure the Pentagon did too. But, the WTC's were building generally open to the public doing many civil affairs. Mostly civilain affairs went down at the WTC.

The Pentagon, our haven for military defense, intelligence, and planning was breeched. Many papers, documents, files and plans were strewn across the open area outside the building. Our security was very vulnerable at that point. Releasing any information about anything can lead to other information being found out by the wrong people.

Even in AFSOC where I work, they make us keep the most ridiculous things secret. Trust me, it sounds silly but it makes sense.

For instance, there are papers within my section that detail where I have been, on what mission and why. Some of them become obsolete and need to be shredded and destroyed. If they happened to simply get thrown away and someone picked it up, they would have alot of detailed information about missions that even the news media doesnt know about. They protected the info as they should have and I am glad they did.

 

Aah, the blame Clinton routine. Here's a little FACT for you, Clinton had FOUR chances to kill or capture Osama, GW has had SIX. Second grade math will tell you who screwed up more. And your boy has done what to fight terrorism? Invade Iraq? Iraq was 5 out of 7 on the list of terrorist supporting nations, and of course, if Reagan didn't create Osama and Saddam, we wouldn't be having this conversation, your selective memory serves you well. The rest of us prefer all of the story.

 

I agree with hellbound F-150 there is a lot of information that the public just has no reason to know about nor should they ever know about.

In these days and ages a lot of people seem to think they have a right to all information so they can judge for themselves if it is important or not. The problem is most people don’t have a clue on what is important or not since they do not know the big picture to begin with…

 

momalle1,

No need to get into a huge debate once again. Let’s just simplify this by stating that when it came to terrorism and doing something about it that Clinton talked the talk and Bush is walking the walk…

Has he made some mistakes? I am sure he has, nothing is perfect however he did not make the “big” mistake that Clinton did by trying to ignore the situation and thus giving the perception to terrorist that America was timid…

 

Burt, still you bash Clinton and ignore the huge mess Reagan created. I still like you buddy, but this one-sided viewpoint is getting long in the tooth.

 

Very important statement! Please everyone read it and take what is said on this forum for what it really is...... "Tuesday evening armchair quarterbacking." Everything is just personal opinion, and we all know about opinions......

My personal opinion, a big damn jet hit the Pentagon, period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

I am not ignoring any mess Reagan may have created. That was a different time and a different situation, as in the cold war time and working to defeat communism and Reagan succeeded in ending the cold war.

The fact of the matter is at times we will have to partner up with some bad people in the name of a bigger and greater cause. Is that the right thing to do? Maybe not but the ends, in the big picture, generally justifies the means.

It is a big cruel world, it will never be completely free nor will there ever be world peace. That is all a fantasy so we have to do what we need to in order to survive and different moments in life will have different solutions to get us, hopefully, where we would like to be.

Just like here in America law enforcement works with some real scumbags to bag the bigger scumbags. It’s not pretty but that is what it takes to try our best to maintain some rule of law and maintain stability.

Clinton was “not” operating in a time of the cold war so those players that we knew from the first Gulf war were evil and wanted to see us dead needed to be dealt with but they were not. Clinton dropped the ball for the game he had presented to him in “his” time frame.

Reagan didn’t drop the ball in his game and so far President Bush hasn’t dropped the ball in his game at hand. Sure there will be some fumbles along the way because that is the nature of the business. However when one sits on the side lines holding there ball safely in the hands for fear of a little bruise is not a team player and has very little to no respect for the team he is playing for…

I still like you as well and have the utmost respect for you as I do for every one on here. Is my viewpoint one sided? Sure it is as is yours and anyone else that has a particular opinion on a subject. It doesn’t make it wrong though…

Of course I am always “right”…


The only person that I know of that does NOT have a one sided view point is Kerry because he takes ALL sides on EVERY view…

 

The things this country - and many other nations - do "behind the scenes" to protect the freedoms that we all enjoy would make most citizens quite uneasy. And would likely give the likes of TV anchormen heart palpitations.

In the end, I think most of us can agree that there is no better place to live. If you *really* think there are greener pastures elsewhere, then you have the freedom to do so

Oh, and "the huge mess Reagan created"
Revisionsist history cracks me up. I'd like to hear how he could have done things better, all things considered. It goes back to the things our government must do to to protect our freedoms. And we had a Democratic congress back then, so you could say it was a bi-partisam effort
Carter and others proved that communist appeasement - and appeasement in general - does not work. The world was a scary place when Reagan took office; when he left, it was much less so.

 

"I'd like to hear how he could have done things better, all things considered."

I can tell you what I would NOT have done, but you wouldn't really be interested in that at all, would you? How is what happened, all things considered of course, revisionist history?

The US has been trying to gain control of the middle east for almost 50 years, and it's failed miserably every single time. When will we learn?

 

Truth be told, and not many are willing to tell the truth, is the Middle East is very important to the stability of America and other free nations. OIL, yes the oil, oil is what makes the world go around, it is one of the foundations for many economies including ours.

There is nothing to apologize about because the facts are the facts. Liberals, in general, whine about ”it’s about the oil” but they too know deep in their soul that without oil all, not some, but ALL their socialist programs would die, our economic machine here in America would come to a screaming halt without good ol’ oil.

No, it’s not about the oil companies making big money. Sure they make money, but not big money compared with any other business. The point is the oil itself, not who makes money on it because we ALL make money off of oil, it fuels our society, our economy our livelihood.

There very likely will be nothing for years, decades or longer to replace oil as the foundation of our energy. It has been tried and no one really wants it. No one really wants nuclear power, not the liberals at least. No body wants wind power (what a joke), not liberals at least. Every time someone comes up with a valuable idea (ignore wind power since it was a stupid idea to begin with) like nuclear or any other source the environmental wackos are there to put a halt to it.

Truth be told these environmental wackos that won’t allow more refineries to be built really would like to see us go back in time when we rode horses but horses pollute as well. I read on one of them wacko sites a few years back about how manure cow and house puts off carbon monoxide something they claim puts holes in the sky…

We have to do what we have to do to bring some stability to the Middle East. We can not allow the Middle East to hold the rest of the world hostage due to the oil there. We can not allow this hate and discontent towards America that breeds terrorist because the Saddam’s of the Middle East fill their peoples head full of myths that it is America’s fault they are poor and live in the dark ages.

Iraq was the starting point to “try” and bring stability to the Middle East. It was a valuable place to start since they had not done what they agreed to do and was told to do for over 10 years. Iraq was “not” about the oil as it was about terrorism and not doing what they had agreed to do for over 10 years. Yes the stability in the Middle East has to do with oil but its much more then that, it’s about taking the breeding grounds for terrorist away and leaving a place that free people can achieve the unachievable of yesterday.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Instead of telling us what you would not have done, let's hear what we should do, or should have done. Let's hear suggestions from you for the future, then in 4 years we'll critique every move you made.

Tough choices have to be made. Do you really think the Iran Contra debacle was a ploy by evil Reagan to line his pockets? Or do you think that he had to make a tough choice to keep the spread of communism in check?

The point is, the end result - ending communism - freed millions.

Some may think that communism was replaced by evil capitalism, and that's fine.

Focus on crap, and all you see is crap.
But people across Eastern Europe and much of the world at least have the freedom to vote to invoke change.

The Western world makes the Middle East wealthy because of our energy demands. Unfortunately, the sources of energy must be protected. Until renewable energy is a reality, no Western leaders will allow society to be held hostage by the source of cheap energy. Sad, but that's how life is in the real world.

I really don't think most of our moderate political leaders - and they are the majority, along with the population - differ all that much on where this country needs to be. It's just the route that we take to get there that differs.

There are kooks all over, from the right and left extremes. The fact that these goups have voices entirely disproportionate to their small numbers is what disturbs me.

 

We are the Arabs.

- Adam Steiffel, Chairman Titan Oil

 

Oh yeah, and about that faked moon landing . . . .

Well, actually, it was faked. I worked on the project and snuck in a camera and took this picture as proof!

 

Jordan, I don't need hindsight to know I would never funnel drugs into this country for any reason.

Reagan killed Communism? All by himself? Yeah, and Elvis invented Rock&Roll. I like both guys, but let's be real. The Soviet Union collapsed for many reasons, not just because of Reagan.