I see this all the time, at least when we argue on here everyone has enough knowledge to form an educated opinion (regardless of what that opinion is I rarely see anyone run their mouth on here who is completely clueless) but the freaking people I work with they say the same stuff as above but when you ask them about facts or the nuts and bolts of the issues or for any background to what they are rnting about, they have no clue. I'm sure there are some of these clueless people who lean right but I don't have to listen to them on a daily basis. This is a scary phenomenon, people with too much passion and not enough info about their beliefs.

 

"BHibbs, I'm not trying to falme you here, but I know you don't like GWB and his policies and thats you perogative but tell me honestly do you think that spineless dirtbag John Kerry can do any better with national security? This is a serious question to someone I know opposes GWB, how do you think Kerry will be better, I like to hear the reasoning behind decisions so I can evaluate what other people with different views are coming from."

Yes, I sincerely Believe Kerry will do a better job. This entire war with Iraq has turned out to be a complete waste of resources that could have been used to increase actual Homeland Security instead of having firemen and Cops layed off in our own cities.

Our borders are porous. 300 Billion could have gone a Long way in beefing up our borders.

Bush handled the pre-war thing totally wrong and destroyed our coalitions. Don't tell me about this crappy coalition we have now with 150 thousand US troops and 22000 non US. This is not a Coalition!

Kerry wants to rebuild our ties and make it a Global occupation of Iraq instead of a US one including Arab countries.

Kerry is the only candidate who's actually proposed Adding more troops to our military (40,000) AND increase Special forces and National Guard. Not close base's and force National guard members to extend their stays.

Kerry NEVER said he was going to bail out of Iraq before the job was done. That's just not true. He has plans to get Iraq on the right track. Something that's been Obviously handled very poorly so far. Bush had his chance and so far he's Blown it. I don't see how Kerry can do any Worse? Time to give the new guy a shot. We've lost control of entire Cities since "major opperations" were completed and Bush declared "mission accomplished." That's Really showing US power.

Kerry has plans to get this Nuke thing under control, Not in 13 years like Bush's plan, but in 2. That includes North Korea and Not showing weakness by pulling out 12,000 troops. NK are the REAL badguys here people, Selling missiles to countries and Has Nukes now with a dictator that makes Saddaam look like Mrs. Puff. Not to mention the Countless UN violations they're making on a daily basis. Dirty bombs and Nukes are the REAL terrorist threat to the US. Not an old mustard gas shell with a grenade taped to it which is the closest thing to a WMD we've found in Iraq so far...

He has a plan to put a Lot more resources towards our First Responders, ports, borders, etc.

All this, AND it would be from a guy that ACTUALLY FOUGHT in WAR instead of Dodged it. Bush himself said just recently that Kerry has an Admirable service record. Bush failed to report for duty and can't be accounted for a year and a half. Do you know where he was? IMO if a soldier fails to report for duty he should be put in jail, not elected President.

Bush had his chance. He blew it. He screwed up our coalitions and diplomatic ties, he embarrassed the US by invading a country that we didn't have to because of "intelligence failures" AND he's not doing a good job Rebuilding Iraq other than making Haliburton all the Richer.

I may have even supported the war IF it would have driven oil prices down but even they are at RECORD ALL TIME HIGHS.

Do you Seriously feel "safer" here in the US from terrorist attacks than you did 3 years ago? Maybe a 9/11 type attack from an airplane... Do you seriously feel "Safer" because Sadaam is in jail?? There aren't any more places to get WMD?? Iran with their progressed nuke program? NK with their 5-10 nukes and having been CAUGHT selling missles to other shady countries... With the ability to Walk across our souther borders? Yea, I feel safer..

 

Oh boy, here we go again…

Iraq is or was a huge part of the war on terror. Were mistakes made? Yep, just like any other conflict, and future conflicts will have mistakes made as well. It’s called being human. Anyhow there is NO difference between Kerry and President Bush when it came to Iraq. Kerry himself stated he would have done the very same thing and attacked Iraq so this part of the debate is useless since both men agree on what had to be done in Iraq.

Beefing up are borders? So I take it you would allow the military to be placed on our borders to beef them up? Also would you allow them to shot dead anyone trying to cross the border? I would, this way people would learn to NOT enter America illegally and word would make it back to those thinking about it…

Real leaders don’t worry about coalitions when their nations security is at risk. Europe is known for wussing out when they are really needed. Europe would have allowed Hitler to take them over had it not been for America and Britian, hell France basically had a welcome banner for the Germans to see as they came marching in. Let’s not go into why there was no coalition because the reason is quit clear, first Germany and France did NOT want this war because it was about OIL for THEM, they had tons of money invested in Iraq, selling them illegal weapons and getting some very cheap oil in the process, not to mention kick backs from the “Food for Oil” program. Then there is the wuss factor, no need to debate that when the country of France is involved…

No, not exactly, Kerry wants Europe’s permission before doing anything. In other words this wuss would ask Germany’s and France’s permission first, if they say no, then no it is…

A real leader…

I am sure he is and isn’t that just wonderful? The man that has done his best to cut and gut the military and intelligence would like to add back probably about 20% of what he helped to cut and gut to begin with…

Then there is that one major problem with Kerry:

He say’s one thing and does another, ”I voted for the $87 billion to support our troops before I voted against it” (oh yah, this chump REALLY supports the military) Then lets not forget he states in one breath he wants to give tax cuts but yet raise taxes. The ol’ boy is always on both sides of the issue no matter what the issue is so you can NOT trust a damn thing he says…

Nope, you have that wrong as well. Kerry has stated his goal was to have our troops out of there in “hopefully” 6 months. That is cutting and running and NOT staying until the job is done. You NEVER tell your enemy of your time schedule, that is just absolutely stupid and thus gives you an idea of Kerry…

How has President Bush “blown it”? Sure there have been mistakes made, always will be no matter who the President is, but just because this war isn’t over, like a TV movie, does not mean it is blown. Quit the opposite, Iraq has began running their own affairs, there own government and we are there to help until they can FULLY protect themselves and until they are squared away. That could take 1 year or 5 years, no big deal it’s a MAJOR win because now you have a free nation in the Middle East to build from and have brought “some” stability to a very unstable part of the world.

I bet he has plans, probably like Clintons plan ”Please sign this paper promising to not play with nukes and we will kiss your butt when ever you insist”

Yep, a guy that spent 4 months in the battle field and then became a traitor. He also spent the last 20 plus years doing his best to cut and gut the military and intelligences agency. I am not worried about what President Bush did during Vietnam because it is not important. If it was important Clinton would have NEVER been elected to office because not only was he a draft dodger but a moron that flew to Russia to protest the war…

Kerry has admitted to committing war crimes and knowing of war crimes being committed. If that is true he should be taken into military custody and tried for war crimes. That is MUCH MORE serious then not showing up for duty, if that is even true…

Oil is at record highs MAINLY because the world demand for oil has risen. China’s demand has grown over 40% just this year. Its economics and its called supply and demand. Just about every oil producing nation is producing 100% of what they can.

YES!!!!

Because terrorist are on notice, if they are caught they will be KILLED, not cuddled and comforted like in Clinton’s time. Why else do you think terrorist around the world support Kerry for President, that should tell you something...


”If Kerry is the answer, then it must have been a stupid question…”

 

BHibbs, thanks for the intelligent and well thought out response. It’s nice to be able to debate with informed and knowledgeable people (I argue with ill informed cretins at work all the time). I'm afraid however that you have more faith in John Kerry than I do. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a sinking suspicion that his coalition building will more resemble making our national sovereignty and security subservient to a corrupt and ineffective UN hijacked by has been European politicians and third world whiners that resent our power and influence. I'm not crazy about how North Korea has been handled but when push comes to shove I really don't see Kerry playing hardball with them too, I don't think he has the stomach for it. From what I have seen of Kerry's voting record I have serious doubts that he will do any good for our military as I believe that he is far more interested in pursuing his domestic agenda (think LBJ scapegoating US troops so that the controversy from his Vietnam policies wouldn't jeopardize his "great society" programs). I feel marginally safer now than I did three years ago, but I do firmly believe that a consequence of living in this country with the freedoms we enjoy will render us eternally vulnerable to people who have nothing to lose and are willing to trade their lives for ours. There is still work to be done about our border security but what has been done is better than nothing. Just so that my entire post isn't a Kerry bash fest I will say that I support his views on stem cell research and that GWB is horribly stunting our scientific community in this area which we can ill afford. By the way GWB hasn't done well enough to earn my vote but based on Kerry's voting record and his inability to present actual productive ideas and alternate proposals other than "the opposite of what Bush is doing" I certainly can't vote for him. Again, thanks for the good discussion.

 

I always enjoy a good discussion as well and also appreciate your views. Maybe some day there will be a candidate that actually crosses party lines and hits the Majority of us that are swing voters. That would be cool.

As for you XLT.. "if they are caught they will be KILLED" This cracks me up considering they're on SUICIDE missions.

 

I can tell you right now. If I were President, I'd have every cave in Afghanistan cleared already. I would've tactically nuked every tunnel and rat hole I found over there. Nothing too heavy, don't want to kill innocents; but if you're hiding in a cave, you're up to something.

I'd send them a 5 Kiloton warming blanket, set off in teh mountains, not above ground- that way the effects go where they need to go.

Set off a few of those babies and watch Osama scurry into the open like a roach when you turn the light on.

 

Not the majority of them, only the few nut cases that actually believe what their wuss leaders feed in their head. There is ONLY one way to make terrorist back down and that is brutal force. Kerry’s loving touching feelings won’t do any good…

 

Good point CIA. I'm VERY disappointed in the way Bush has handled Afghanistan and OBL. Talk about NOT finishing the job...

 

With all due respect you sometimes sound like you have read every talking point made by Kerry on how to be on both sides of the issue or ”Flip-Flopping for dummies”.

First you say we should have never invaded Iraq, even though there was plenty of proof, but now you seem to be ok and promoting that we go ahead and invade Pakistan since that is where OBL is suspected of hiding out at instead of Afghanistan. You know there is a very easy way to take this guy out. If we know within a 500 mile radius or so where this punk is at we could drop a few nukes and insure we take him out. So, you for that? I have no idea since you continually pull a Kerry and flip-flop back and forth on your positions…

 

The country would be destroyed, ours would be bankrupt and you would hold great honor like Saddam, Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin.

His time will come, dont be fooled because you dont see results. We are still looking for him.

 

"you seem to be ok and promoting that we go ahead and invade Pakistan "

Yea.... That's Exactly what I said..

Now I know why you guys think Kerry "flip flops" all the time. You have a wonderful gift of putting words into peoples mouthes XLT.

 

XLT is on fire

 

As the unofficial expert on XLT, I must dissagree.
I suffer from carpool tunnel syndrome (caused by him) so I automatically send all of burt's posts to the printer. There they are date stamped and weighed.

That last post you refer to was barely a four pounder. When XLT is 'on fire' I'm hauling six or eight pounders off the printer.

 

Forgive me if I somehow offended you…

I am simply trying to understand what you’re saying. You had stated:

All news accounts that I have heard have stated that sources “believe” OBL is on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan, but hiding out on the Pakistan side. Therefore if you truly wish for President Bush to “finish” the job you would be promoting the concept of American forces invading Pakistan to get OBL, yes?

There is no other way to view your post otherwise and thus if your for American forces invading yet another country then what happen? First your against America invading countries then your for America invading countries, kind of like Kerry:

”I voted for the $87 billion for our troops before I voted against the $87 billion…”

So it sounds like your on the right side finally and are promoting America invading Pakistan and taking out that wuss bag OBL, no? If not then you really shouldn’t mention anything about President Bush finishing a job that you would not allow him to finish in the first place but rather use it for talking points, kind of like Moore…

 

The reality is, we don't know WHERE he is because we don't have enough troops or resources there to find him since they're all in Iraq for no good reason.

So, using your reasoning, XLT hates all children and Babies and loves terrorists. If you're for nuking an entire country side to get someone. If babies and children live in that "500 mile radius" you must Hate them because you want them to die. Therefore you hate All babies and children but love terrorists because they love attacking innocent civilians as well... There's no other way around it. This is Fact

Bush lost focus and therefore lost OBL. Maybe the Paki's will find him. If Kerry was in office we'd have a coalition with the Paki's and could be there Too looking for OBL. Just another CLEAR example how Bush blew it and his "we don't need anybody" attitude has caught up with him. According to YOU we DO need somebody.... If Gore or Kerry were in the same circumstances, We'd have the guy responsible for 9/11 right now. Not some guy we "thought" had WMD.

You're really good at making up Excuses and Blaiming the Other guy when they can't finish a job. Or guys that say the "mission is accomplished" when it's FAR From. I fire guys like that and hire the guy that actually gets the job DONE. In my book Bush is Fired.