Ahhh, dialog this is good…

That makes sense to a point but we know that some of these countries will take advantage of keeping wages very low so as to maintain a very high profit margin for the few, the owners of such places like I mentioned in Mexico.

As you say it is a balancing act and I have no solid answers on the issue except as you mentioned and I mentioned earlier with some type of minimum wage. Asia is one issue but our neighbor’s next door is another story. Work where you at for $3 an hour or walk a few hours down the road and earn maybe $8 an hour.

And the dialog continues…

 

I believe that would then be sumbaros and about 10 if they pass them around. The point is that they contributed 300 billion and most likely recieved 400 billion in beni's.

 

If you're illegal, then you're screwing the U.S.. If you weren't doing anything wrong, then you wouldn't be illegal. Legal Americans have every right to be here, they're LEGAL AMERICANS. Also, I'm not being a racist, I'm not saying that every single immigrant hurts the U.S., because they don't. But, there are some that mooch, and that's what the poem is about. It's not talking about the people who are actually legal and pulling their weight. If you're illegal, then you don't deserve to be here, period.

 

I think someone could not be blamed for calling this an ignorant, biased accusation, unless of course you can back it up with some real references to real statistics.

400 billion is a lot of money...Let's say that there are 5% of the US population here illegally. Probably an gross overestimate...That would be about, what, 12 million people? So you are saying that illegals get some $3200 in inappropriate beni's each due to their illegal presence in the US?

The numbers get worse as your estimate of illegals get more accurate.

The "problem" spoken of in the poem may exist on some small scale, but it is unfair and bigoted to paint all immigrants with that brush. MOST illegals, aware of the potential for deportation, lay low and steer as clear as possible away from contact with the government.

I am going to have start charging more than .02 for my opinions...

 

Found this today at a blog I frequent:Here

I think this sums up the situation nicely. The first part discusses immigration issues in Europe, which are not going well and should not be emulated here, I think, but the later parts talk specifically to the issues we have discussed above...

Some fine reading.

TS

 

So the illegals are here , now what?

They will probably want to go to work. Great attitude but they will take a job for less money than the legal workers. Especially in the trades where it's easy to hide money paid out , like construction , landscaping , farming etc... Now we have an excess of legal semi-skilled workers who may have to go on welfare.

Now that the illegals have jobs. They have to get to work. They use the mass transit systems , which most are subsidized by the government or in other words our tax dollars. They ride the system until they can buy a car.

Now they have a car to get back and forth from work. They can't get a drivers license because of their status so they can't get insurance. Typically they don't have much driving experience either. So we have an unskilled , uninsured driver on the road. Would you want be the victim of an accident with this person? Most legal peoples insurance wouldn't cover an accident of this type but their rates would most likely go up and would have to pay for their repairs out their pocket. Then they have to appear legal to police to avoid being pulled over . They can't register the car because they can't get insurance. So the most likely situation would be to steal tags from a legitimate car . Great now a theif.

The illegal gets hurt at work . Now they go to the hospital which they are entitled to do on our taxpayer dollars. Then they learn they can go on workmans comp. even with their illegal status. Raising the price of workers comp. insurance to not only their company but all companies. By the way here in California 28% of workers comp. claims are from illegals.

Now let's say 2 illegals get together and start a family. The baby is born an American citizen. The mother is now legally entitled to stay here and most importantly qualifies for welfare AND housing. Of course the father is nowhere to be found by the system. He just shows up a little later and now has a new home paid for by our tax dollars. The mother becomes a citizen after passing her tests . Then she marries the father of her child . Now they have a home , medical coverage and income all from our tax dollars.

Pretty picture , ain't it.

 

Pretty picture----NOT

but all too realistic, just the same.

 

i am too tired to read ALL the damn posts, but I read most of them. if we want to stop illegal immigration from Mexico we have to make it worhtwhile for people to live there. how do we do that? how about improving the Mexican economy and the standard of living down there. I know people say it is their country and their problem, but it has become our problem with illegal immigration so we muct deal with it. NAFTA is killing Mexico. But illegal immigration was going on long before NAFTA. Why don't we have a flood of illegals immigrants from Canada? well, to say it simply, it is nice up there and they don't want to leave. we love exploiting the mexican economy for cheap goods, but we pay for it in welfare. and if all of the illegal immigrants disapeared from California, there would be very little fresh fruits and veggies on most peoples tables. illegal immigrants harvest most of the produce in California that feeds much of our nation. no one else will do the job for that low pay. you want all workers to be legal then you gotta be willing to pay them minimum wage at least and therefore your fresh produce will be much much more expensive. i don't think anyone here is blinded by the fact that it is all about money.

we can't keep all of the pie for ourself and then bitch about someone else wanting a little piece of it. sure it's easy to say "work hard and life will be better." we say this sitting in front of our computers that cost hundreds and even thousands of dollars about folks who can barely afford to buy food.

 

Appearantly some sit in front of their computers and make judgements from both sides.

1. Why is it up to us to build Mexicos economy?

2. My job was not lost because of out sourceing to Mexico it was lost because it was sent to China. Not many illegal Chinese here.

3. Perhaps you should go to Northern Missouri where a hog raising corporation promised a struggling rural area new jobs and after approval , Bussed in thousands of Mexicans Legal and illegal. These people are willing to work for the low wages but no jobs because of the migrant workers.

4. If all migrant workers disappeared ???? Yeah and as soon as we captured Saddam then the Iraqis would quit fighting. Or you could look at it like a supply and demand issue. Prices will rise but product will still be harvested and sold.

5. Have you ever tried to get a job picking? You will be run out of there by the migrant workers. No union but they feel like you are stealing their jobs. Sound familiar?

6. Barely afford to buy food??? I thought they were the ones controlling the food supply.

One simple idea would control illegal immigration ....
Build all US prisons on the border and get them out of our back yards. No one wants to break into prison and if they try to cross then they may end up shot. Make the "soft" wall towards the border . Anyone escaping would escape to the other side.

Just my opinions.

 

canyonslicker,

I said it in my original post, it has become our problem, that is why we need to build up the Mexican economy. It is not inherently our responsibility, but as a nation we a reaping the benefits of globalization and seeing the pains with it (illegal immigration for one).

i think we can all understand why there are not many illegal Chinese immigrants here. it is much harder to swim the Pacific Ocean than the Rio Grande. Distance is a big deal. But a few times a year here in LA we hear news reports of ships coming into Long Beach harbor with a bunch of illegal immigrants from Asia stashed on the boat. no doubt most illegal immigration is from Mexico though. We as a nation are getting the benefits of cheap labor from Mexico. Again, another result of globalization. My condolences to those who have lost jobs because of companies taking their operations over seas. We must also consider the alternative, how much do you think your monitor or computer would cost if it was made entirely in the USA? if we want to keep jobs, we gotta pay for the goods.

I agree that if all the illegal immigrants disappeared the product will still be harvested. no argument here. I was simply saying that if harvest labor, legal or otherwise, were paid minimum wage or better, food prices would rise dramatically. I think we agree on this point. supply and demand is indeed the name of the game. product will be harvested and supplied, but at a much higher price to consumers.

i have never tried to get a job picking so I cannot comment on that. I will take you at your word because you seem to have more experience with it than I.

they may be harvesting the food, but they don't make much money out of it. just like folks building the Mercedes S-Class. they may be making them, but I doubt a whole lot of guys on the line can afford to buy an expensive ride like that. sure, it's not apples to apples (no pun intended) but if you see the migrant labor camps, folks are barely living in those conditions.

punishment has to fit the crime. shooting people for crossing the border is harsh and we all know that. we can talk big on an internet forum, but in reality that is not an idea worth discussing nor pursuing.

i appreciate the discussion though. well done folks.