So while chatting with my buddy who owns Grand Prairie Ford in DFW he made a comment that I wanted to ask other SD owners about.

In regards to SD' trucks in general, he said "people buy Dodge CTD's because they cannot afford to buy a F250 PSD."

The reason for my question, is that if you stroll over to RV.net there is some serious Ford bashing going on, and 9-10 times its from a Dodge guy. You rarely see the GM folks slamming Ford. Wondering why there are so many pissed off Dodge owners out there.

Personally I think GM makes a great Diesel, or rather Isuzu makes a great Diesel aka the Duramax....and GM would be my second choice to the PSD but in regards to Ford, do people really turn to Dodge b./c they cannot afford the PSD? Same for GM?

Discuss.

 

A buddy of mine is a mopar man through and through. He has a 2005 Dodge 2500 Cummins. I know he did not buy it because he could not afford the Ford. I'm sure he is not he only guy in his situation out there.

 

Even though I own a Dodge doesn't make me hate Ford, or even GM for that matter. I'd rather own cars from the Big 3 than anyone else. Trust me.

But I don't want to start a war, battle, feud, etc with any... but I've got to state my comments on this one... if you don't like it, don't reply with hast... just ignore it. Please, be considerate, as it's just as much my opinion as it is yours in what you say.

However, Ford is way overpricing the diesel engine option. $7,300 for an engine?! For a medium-duty pickup!? No way.

So of coure Dodge owners are going to humiliate Ford. The 6.4l PS is a good engine, I am not denying that. I am just saying that Ford needs to either go with a less costly engine, or just take the loss and sell the engine for less. Heck, I have only seen about 2 or 3 6.4l PS diesels out on the road where I live... and around the city and town. Most of the new ones I see all have the V10 or V8 options. In fact, on my way to college, there is an authorized BOSS Plow dealer (one that strictly sells, warrantees, fixes BOSS brand plow systems), and I have only seen 1 with a snow plow on it. That accounts for 1 of the 2 or 3 I've seen since it's conception. I think there are more at the dealer's lot than I've seen on the road. That is NOT A lie. I wouldn't even joke about it.

However, I've seen so many of the '08s with the gas engines... I can't begin to count or imagine how many I've seen.

The point at which I am alluding to is the following... Ford needs to lower their prices on their diesel engines. If they cannot do it, find a way to do it, OR take a loss, as it's their fault for having engineers control the price. Of course engineers don't give to craps about how much it is going to cost in the end... I can tell you this... it don't need no stinkin' twin turbos.

Do any of you know how much one of those turbos cost?! They cost about $1,600.00 each from Ford... Do they need two? No. So that right there would chop off some serious $$. Not to mention some of the other junk they put on it.

If they want to sell an engine like that, then they can sell it as a "upgraded" engine package as an option. But they should keep the cost variance from the gas to the diesel within $2,000 give or take some. A diesel engine isn't that high-tech. In fact, it is simpler than a gas engine... even though the Feds demand better air quality standards... but that can be done with better tuning and a simple DPF set up.

Besides, I don't know why the government is trying to kick diesel out the door... I guess it gives America something to fight for over in Iraq.

If the government wants to knife diesel engines, just do it... seriously... but I'll tell you now, diesel technology is the way to go. Rudolph Diesel had some serious ideas when he created his engine... and some of which no one has taken seriously.

Another thing that REALLY ticks me off, is that I've been in a few libraries within the past week, and I happened to look for diesel engine books and diesel technology. Well, come to find out they've got books that only go up to the earliest is of 1994. Yes, 1994. No wonder why no one is developing new ideas for the engine... yet these scalawag engineers at Ford hoodwink consumers into forcing them to buy "their diesel engine"... that is just a bunch of horsepoop. Making a diesel engine efficient and clean does not cost $7,300... it can be done for equal of what a gas engine costs. So with that said, I'm done with my rant...

Take it for what it's worth... I can just keep on beating dead horse and my words are not going to change a thing.

 

I didn't start the thread to start a war and I appreciate your comments, well said and I do agree with you. But where I think FMC really makes their premium is in the options combined with the PSD. For instance, in TX I see more King Ranches than I see Lariats....maybe that's b.c I have a KR I look for it but one stroll on the lot, you'll see more KR's than Lariats. Granted that may be due to where I live but back to my point. XLT PSD are reasonably priced compared to GM or Dodge. Ford is not the only one with expensive Diesels, price out a LT1, Z71 2500 or 3500, they cost as much or more as a KR with less options, granted that is the sticker price.

When I was looking for my F250, I went to Dodge just to look, I couldn't beleive how much price difference there was in the CTD than the PSD, but then I was looking at the 4 speeds and their Larait version (Lairime) or something like that.

Again, not a flame war intended on this post, if I wanted that I would have posted on RV.net, that would be a popular thread over there. I have said this many times on this forum, give me a F250 body, CTD and an Allison and that there would be the truck that dreams are made of. Since that day is never going to happen, we buy what we buy and for our needs. I am loyal to Ford even though I know the issues with the 04-06 PSD and I just hope mine stays together.

Cheers

 

No problem.

Just one more thing... it really doesn't have to do with the '08 6.4l but rather a '07 with the 6.0l, and this was last January when I bought my truck. Anyhow, I was seriously interested in custom ordering a '07 F250, XL, Power Nothing, Vinyl bench, AM/FM clock radio, 4x2 RWD, 6.0l Powerstroke Diesel, and a 6 speed stick... would've walked out the door spending $32,250 for a truck with absolutely nothing in it. I heard the price, and I got sticker shock. I had a ball park set for about $24k to $26k... so I settled for the F150 XL. But I couldn't afford it. I really wanted one too.

 

Oddly, I was just pricing '08 350/3500 from the big three yesterday. I have a growing contractor business and my F150 is not cutting the work load. I was curious how comparable Dodge and Chevy were to Ford so I did a build and price on all 3. I built a KR 350 2wd crew LB with diesel to similar packages with Dodge and Chevy. The Ford came in most expensive overall at $51k, then Chevy at $49 and Dodge at $47. Now I'm NOT SAYING I did all options on all trucks. I did NOT spend time making sure I added option to option across the board. If I saw an option I liked, I checked it. I may have missed options from one that I put on another.
Not sure where you get your pricing from but according to P&B off the websites, 1 ton diesel options are listed as:
Ford: $6545
Dodge: $6100
Chevy: $7195
The main reason I was curious is because of the ongoing talk of the Ford 6.4 diesel not being the greatest engine. A very good friend of mine is a Ford master technician and is the diesel specialist at his dealership. I get a lot of info from him about how Ford is not happy with the 6.4 as well as customers that have them. Any new engine I would expect some issues with but seems the 6.4 is down on power and is not very good with MPG. When a Ford diesel specialist says he wouldn't buy one, that kinda tells you something.
For now, I suppose I'll look for a used 2001-03 7.3 and hope that Ford can work the bugs out of the 6.4 in the near future.
FWIW, I LOVE Ford trucks and wouldn't own anything else.

 

To me, I don't think it comes down to the engine as much as the rest of the truck, Ford's IMO have always had much more complete and feature rich option packages that drive up the price....I have many friends that drive Dodges and Chevy's and the one thing I consistently notice is general fit and finish and quality of materials, and although biased always think Ford does the best job in that area. IMO, perfect truck is a Ford Body/Interior, Cummins Engine, and Allison transmission......as it relates to just Dodge I've looked at them everytime it comes time to get a new truck, and each time the materials seem so cheap and some of my friends trucks seem to rattle apart in a year or two......nice engine, POS rest of truck...

 

That is the complete opposite of what I have been hearing from both dealerships that I know. Again, I know the owner of one and hunt with him on a regular basis. Some times his Service Manager comes with us and he told me the opposite regarding the 6.4. He says that Ford loves this engine and thinks they hit a home run. Sales also speak for themselves. At Payton Wright Ford in Grapevine TX they used to sell 1 F250 per 20 F150's, my good pal over there told him he hasn't sold one F150 this month. All F250's and they have poeple waiting on them now.

I guess it just depends on where you are.

 

Yeah, angus242's statement confuses me too, as everything that I have heard about the 6.4L has been great. Maybe I got a good one, but at 11,000 miles, I could not be happier with mine. I think it's another case of rumors turning into fact, but when you ask these people what is wrong with the 6.4L, all they can come up with is low fuel mileage. Of course, only time will tell whether or not the 6.4L is as great as it seems to be...but I am betting that it does.

 

Guys, I'm just relaying what I'm HEARING up in the Chicago area. Diesel SDs are not big sellers and from the ONE particular dealer that my technician friend works at, he is seeing an abnormal amount of the 6.4s in for service. That dealership's customers are also complaining about the mileage....although I could assume just because it's a diesel perhaps those customers assume they should be getting more????? And as for Ford saying they're not happen, my friend has been to the local Ford training facility and it was 2 of the instructions that were complaining....not the local Ford rep or anyone of the corporate engineers he deals with. My friend is a BIG fan of diesels in general but he still says that he'd wait a year or two before he'd buy one. Perhaps (also) he is a bit jaded because to work on them is MUCH tougher than the previous body styles. Some of the engine work needs the cab to come off to even work on them.
I didn't mean to bash the new SD. As I already stated, I wouldn't own anything BUT a Ford...especially trucks. I was just relaying what I have heard. The original post was questioning why Dodge guys are bashing the new 6.4 so I thought I'd pass on what I have been hearing too.

 

I know you are not trying to bash the SD but again, you said something that is totally opposite of what I am hearing. Just an FYI, Ford designed the F250 to take the cab off to work on the engine, it was designed that way to make it easier. With the New SD' they techs seem to love them b/c they are much easier to work on. And what I have heard on the low mileage is due to a number of factors. 1. EPA, 2. ULSD. I think you are going to see all engines take a hit in mileage for a while until they figure out how to get more out of the fuel.

 

I 100% agree.

And personally, I could care less what the technicians have to do to fix my vehicle. They are getting paid to do it and if they don't like it, get a different job. I was just trying to speculate why a diesel technician would not have a favorable view of the new 6.4.
I'm not an idiot. I know ALL vehicles break or can break regardless of how new or old. I hope the 6.4 over time turns out to be a winner.

It's funny, as far as I know the only cars with diesel options (recently) have been Mercedes and VW. Mercedes canceled theirs (rumour has it they are coming back out) and VW won't offer it again until later next year. I believe that's because both are going ULSD. It will be interesting to see what kind of mileage the cars get with ULSD. Talk about screwing up a good thing. Way to go government idiots! E85 my a$$!!!!

 

another roomer i have heard is that there having catastrophic turbo failure with the tt set up but thats what i have herd. down here i see a lot of the 6.4s compared to the gassers. i love my ford and thats all i will buy

 

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The only thing I have heard is that reflash issue on the cold start....flame thrower thing but that was only a very, very small number of trucks.(I think the official number this happened on was like 45) Quick fix.

When Ford and International were in a fight, those few trucks that they did send out...it wouldn't surprise me if they had some issues with those but I suspect that Ford knows which ones were out during the dispute and will hold their ***** to the fire on those.