tuner for 2012 ecoboost
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 442
Likes: 2
From: Calvert Co., MD
I have an Edge CS that was updated recently for my Ecoboost. There are still some bugs to be worked out for the 2012's - it did have underboost and other glitches. The Edge tech told me that they are in the final stages to get the bugs worked out and it DOES LEAVE A FOOTPRINT in the ECU that the dealer can find.
I have an Edge CS that was updated recently for my Ecoboost. There are still some bugs to be worked out for the 2012's - it did have underboost and other glitches. The Edge tech told me that they are in the final stages to get the bugs worked out and it DOES LEAVE A FOOTPRINT in the ECU that the dealer can find.
I ask because I have personally used Ford IDS software as a Ford Master Tech and the only thing that we could tell was if someone had scanned the ECM. It does NOT tell what was done to the ECM, ie. flashing. It only leaves a foot pirnt per say, similar as to if you used a code scanner to read/clear trouble codes. This hardly tells if the ECM has been flashed tuned!
Last edited by SpeedofSound; Jun 6, 2012 at 11:02 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Your stating "it DOES LEAVE A FOOTPRINT"...as in, you yourself have personally experienced and saw this? You can personally verify it?
I ask because I have personally used Ford IDS software as a Ford Master Tech and the only thing that we could tell was if someone had scanned the ECM. It does NOT tell what was done to the ECM, ie. flashing. It only leaves a foot pirnt per say, similar as to if you used a code scanner to read/clear trouble codes. This hardly tells if the ECM has been flashed tuned!
I ask because I have personally used Ford IDS software as a Ford Master Tech and the only thing that we could tell was if someone had scanned the ECM. It does NOT tell what was done to the ECM, ie. flashing. It only leaves a foot pirnt per say, similar as to if you used a code scanner to read/clear trouble codes. This hardly tells if the ECM has been flashed tuned!
What tools does Dearborn have at it's disposal, over and above what is available at the Dealer level (e.g IDS)? I'm referring to the toolset the actual designer, developer and manufacturer of the PCM itself provides.
I've used Intel (embedded) microprocessor development systems for decades, and these allow access to areas of the architecture no 'end-user' tools can even see, let alone alter.
Just speculatin'...
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 442
Likes: 2
From: Calvert Co., MD
This was the response from Edge tech support when I asked about it: "We do leave a footprint in this vehicle when we program so the dealer can tell if they look for electronic modifications when you bring the truck in for service. Typically we recommend programming to stock and removing the product so that they give you a fair diagnostic and not immediately blame it on the aftermarket additions."
Mornin'!
What tools does Dearborn have at it's disposal, over and above what is available at the Dealer level (e.g IDS)? I'm referring to the toolset the actual designer, developer and manufacturer of the PCM itself provides.
I've used Intel (embedded) microprocessor development systems for decades, and these allow access to areas of the architecture no 'end-user' tools can even see, let alone alter.
Just speculatin'...
What tools does Dearborn have at it's disposal, over and above what is available at the Dealer level (e.g IDS)? I'm referring to the toolset the actual designer, developer and manufacturer of the PCM itself provides.
I've used Intel (embedded) microprocessor development systems for decades, and these allow access to areas of the architecture no 'end-user' tools can even see, let alone alter.
Just speculatin'...
To be honest, I do not know definitively what they have at the factory, that they swear, gives them the capabilities that they claim... ie. check if the ECM has been flashed or not. That part is top secret and kept from the techs...LOL.
I have seen corporate request the ECM from vehicles and the tech had to remove it and send it to them, but still, nothing negative came from that.
To be honest, and I hate to say it, but I do not have an accurate answer as to what they use at Dearborn/Corporate to check the ECM, if they even truly use anything and are merely not just trying to use scare tactics. From what I understand after talking to a few service managers and corporate personnel, they can only tell if the customer has left the performance tune in the ECM because they can then verify the flashed tuned parameters against the stock parameters. I know that is probably an uninformative answer I gave, and I apologize for that.
Cheers!
This was the response from Edge tech support when I asked about it: "We do leave a footprint in this vehicle when we program so the dealer can tell if they look for electronic modifications when you bring the truck in for service. Typically we recommend programming to stock and removing the product so that they give you a fair diagnostic and not immediately blame it on the aftermarket additions."
First, if you leave the vehicle tuned, like I said above, they can tell by comparing parameters that the vehicle has been tuned. That being said, if the vehicle is flashed back to stock, they cannot tell anything aside from the KAM being erased and a P1000 code present...both of which are indicative to either a dead battery or being flash tuned.
In more detail, when a vehicle is flashed, whether it be with a tune or back to stock, the ECM KAM (keep all memory) is erased and a P1000 code is stored(which means emissions controls have been reset and idle tables figures have not been stored), which basically boils down to a complete drive cycle has not been performed. P1000 is basically an invisible code that is stored in the ECM only and does not throw a check engine light. It can only be found with a scanner or factory software. Now all of those exact flags like I said, also show up when a battery has been disconnected for more than 30 minutes too.
So you have 2 ways around it....
1. Flash the vehicle back to stock and then complete a drive cycle before going to the dealer for service. A drive cycle consists of driving for 50 miles all the while, driving at different speeds including stop and go, highway, etc etc. Normal driving of course, from low speed to highways speeds. That then fills the idle tables and stores emissions information too. Therefore leaving no trace of the vehicle ECM ever being tampered with!
2. If the vehicle is not drivable, you then can flash the vehicle back to stock and then turn on the radio and other power accessories to run the battery down to dead status. That then, (if you recall what I said above as far as the battery being disconnected causing the same things), makes the vehicle KAM become erased, emissions tables reset and P1000 code be stored. The difference is, the battery being dead gives you a viable and 100% believable excuse as to why those things were stored in the computer. Hence, making it look like just a dead battery issue, therefore no one becomes the wiser. You just wait to call the tow truck and then use the excuse that the tow truck took so long, you were listening to music and such while you were waiting.
All of the above is direct first hand experience that I have and not speculation. Hopefully it gives a better understanding of how the ECM operates, as far as flash tuning is concerned, and helps to put to rest, some of the fear of using a flash tuner.
Cheers!
Last edited by SpeedofSound; Jun 7, 2012 at 02:30 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,390
Likes: 10
Hello my friend.
To be honest, I do not know definitively what they have at the factory, that they swear, gives them the capabilities that they claim... ie. check if the ECM has been flashed or not. That part is top secret and kept from the techs...LOL.
I have seen corporate request the ECM from vehicles and the tech had to remove it and send it to them, but still, nothing negative came from that.
To be honest, and I hate to say it, but I do not have an accurate answer as to what they use at Dearborn/Corporate to check the ECM, if they even truly use anything and are merely not just trying to use scare tactics. From what I understand after talking to a few service managers and corporate personnel, they can only tell if the customer has left the performance tune in the ECM because they can then verify the flashed tuned parameters against the stock parameters. I know that is probably an uninformative answer I gave, and I apologize for that.
Cheers!
To be honest my friend, I do not trust anything Edge says for reasons that I will not disclose here...lets just say I have a lot of experience with their lack of knowledge, their tuners and their issues. Let me explain in a bit more detail what the dealer/tech can see.
First, if you leave the vehicle tuned, like I said above, they can tell by comparing parameters that the vehicle has been tuned. That being said, if the vehicle is flashed back to stock, they cannot tell anything aside from the KAM being erased and a P1000 code present...both of which are indicative to either a dead battery or being flash tuned.
In more detail, when a vehicle is flashed, whether it be with a tune or back to stock, the ECM KAM (keep all memory) is erased and a P1000 code is stored(which means emissions controls have been reset and idle tables figures have not been stored), which basically boils down to a complete drive cycle has not been performed. P1000 is basically an invisible code that is stored in the ECM only and does not throw a check engine light. It can only be found with a scanner or factory software. Now all of those exact flags like I said, also show up when a battery has been disconnected for more than 30 minutes too.
So you have 2 ways around it....
1. Flash the vehicle back to stock and then complete a drive cycle before going to the dealer for service. A drive cycle consists of driving for 50 miles all the while, driving at different speeds including stop and go, highway, etc etc. Normal driving of course, from low speed to highways speeds. That then fills the idle tables and stores emissions information too. Therefore leaving no trace of the vehicle ECM ever being tampered with!
2. If the vehicle is not drivable, you then can flash the vehicle back to stock and then turn on the radio and other power accessories to run the battery down to dead status. That then, (if you recall what I said above as far as the battery being disconnected causing the same things), makes the vehicle KAM become erased, emissions tables reset and P1000 code be stored. The difference is, the battery being dead gives you a viable and 100% believable excuse as to why those things were stored in the computer. Hence, making it look like just a dead battery issue, therefore no one becomes the wiser. You just wait to call the tow truck and then use the excuse that the tow truck took so long, you were listening to music and such while you were waiting.
All of the above is direct first hand experience that I have and not speculation. Hopefully it gives a better understanding of how the ECM operates, as far as flash tuning is concerned, and helps to put to rest, some of the fear of using a flash tuner.
Cheers!
To be honest, I do not know definitively what they have at the factory, that they swear, gives them the capabilities that they claim... ie. check if the ECM has been flashed or not. That part is top secret and kept from the techs...LOL.
I have seen corporate request the ECM from vehicles and the tech had to remove it and send it to them, but still, nothing negative came from that.
To be honest, and I hate to say it, but I do not have an accurate answer as to what they use at Dearborn/Corporate to check the ECM, if they even truly use anything and are merely not just trying to use scare tactics. From what I understand after talking to a few service managers and corporate personnel, they can only tell if the customer has left the performance tune in the ECM because they can then verify the flashed tuned parameters against the stock parameters. I know that is probably an uninformative answer I gave, and I apologize for that.
Cheers!
To be honest my friend, I do not trust anything Edge says for reasons that I will not disclose here...lets just say I have a lot of experience with their lack of knowledge, their tuners and their issues. Let me explain in a bit more detail what the dealer/tech can see.
First, if you leave the vehicle tuned, like I said above, they can tell by comparing parameters that the vehicle has been tuned. That being said, if the vehicle is flashed back to stock, they cannot tell anything aside from the KAM being erased and a P1000 code present...both of which are indicative to either a dead battery or being flash tuned.
In more detail, when a vehicle is flashed, whether it be with a tune or back to stock, the ECM KAM (keep all memory) is erased and a P1000 code is stored(which means emissions controls have been reset and idle tables figures have not been stored), which basically boils down to a complete drive cycle has not been performed. P1000 is basically an invisible code that is stored in the ECM only and does not throw a check engine light. It can only be found with a scanner or factory software. Now all of those exact flags like I said, also show up when a battery has been disconnected for more than 30 minutes too.
So you have 2 ways around it....
1. Flash the vehicle back to stock and then complete a drive cycle before going to the dealer for service. A drive cycle consists of driving for 50 miles all the while, driving at different speeds including stop and go, highway, etc etc. Normal driving of course, from low speed to highways speeds. That then fills the idle tables and stores emissions information too. Therefore leaving no trace of the vehicle ECM ever being tampered with!
2. If the vehicle is not drivable, you then can flash the vehicle back to stock and then turn on the radio and other power accessories to run the battery down to dead status. That then, (if you recall what I said above as far as the battery being disconnected causing the same things), makes the vehicle KAM become erased, emissions tables reset and P1000 code be stored. The difference is, the battery being dead gives you a viable and 100% believable excuse as to why those things were stored in the computer. Hence, making it look like just a dead battery issue, therefore no one becomes the wiser. You just wait to call the tow truck and then use the excuse that the tow truck took so long, you were listening to music and such while you were waiting.
All of the above is direct first hand experience that I have and not speculation. Hopefully it gives a better understanding of how the ECM operates, as far as flash tuning is concerned, and helps to put to rest, some of the fear of using a flash tuner.
Cheers!
Thank-you, sir!
MGD
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Hey Rob how are you liking that 93 tune with the Afe CAI ? Curious to see how well ya like it and how it performs.
To be honest, I do not know definitively what they have at the factory, that they swear, gives them the capabilities that they claim... ie. check if the ECM has been flashed or not. That part is top secret and kept from the techs...LOL.
I have seen corporate request the ECM from vehicles and the tech had to remove it and send it to them, but still, nothing negative came from that.
To be honest, and I hate to say it, but I do not have an accurate answer as to what they use at Dearborn/Corporate to check the ECM, if they even truly use anything and are merely not just trying to use scare tactics. From what I understand after talking to a few service managers and corporate personnel, they can only tell if the customer has left the performance tune in the ECM because they can then verify the flashed tuned parameters against the stock parameters. I know that is probably an uninformative answer I gave, and I apologize for that.
Cheers!
To be honest my friend, I do not trust anything Edge says for reasons that I will not disclose here...lets just say I have a lot of experience with their lack of knowledge, their tuners and their issues. Let me explain in a bit more detail what the dealer/tech can see.
First, if you leave the vehicle tuned, like I said above, they can tell by comparing parameters that the vehicle has been tuned. That being said, if the vehicle is flashed back to stock, they cannot tell anything aside from the KAM being erased and a P1000 code present...both of which are indicative to either a dead battery or being flash tuned.
In more detail, when a vehicle is flashed, whether it be with a tune or back to stock, the ECM KAM (keep all memory) is erased and a P1000 code is stored(which means emissions controls have been reset and idle tables figures have not been stored), which basically boils down to a complete drive cycle has not been performed. P1000 is basically an invisible code that is stored in the ECM only and does not throw a check engine light. It can only be found with a scanner or factory software. Now all of those exact flags like I said, also show up when a battery has been disconnected for more than 30 minutes too.
So you have 2 ways around it....
1. Flash the vehicle back to stock and then complete a drive cycle before going to the dealer for service. A drive cycle consists of driving for 50 miles all the while, driving at different speeds including stop and go, highway, etc etc. Normal driving of course, from low speed to highways speeds. That then fills the idle tables and stores emissions information too. Therefore leaving no trace of the vehicle ECM ever being tampered with!
2. If the vehicle is not drivable, you then can flash the vehicle back to stock and then turn on the radio and other power accessories to run the battery down to dead status. That then, (if you recall what I said above as far as the battery being disconnected causing the same things), makes the vehicle KAM become erased, emissions tables reset and P1000 code be stored. The difference is, the battery being dead gives you a viable and 100% believable excuse as to why those things were stored in the computer. Hence, making it look like just a dead battery issue, therefore no one becomes the wiser. You just wait to call the tow truck and then use the excuse that the tow truck took so long, you were listening to music and such while you were waiting.
All of the above is direct first hand experience that I have and not speculation. Hopefully it gives a better understanding of how the ECM operates, as far as flash tuning is concerned, and helps to put to rest, some of the fear of using a flash tuner.
Cheers![/QUOTE]
To be honest, I do not know definitively what they have at the factory, that they swear, gives them the capabilities that they claim... ie. check if the ECM has been flashed or not. That part is top secret and kept from the techs...LOL.
I have seen corporate request the ECM from vehicles and the tech had to remove it and send it to them, but still, nothing negative came from that.
To be honest, and I hate to say it, but I do not have an accurate answer as to what they use at Dearborn/Corporate to check the ECM, if they even truly use anything and are merely not just trying to use scare tactics. From what I understand after talking to a few service managers and corporate personnel, they can only tell if the customer has left the performance tune in the ECM because they can then verify the flashed tuned parameters against the stock parameters. I know that is probably an uninformative answer I gave, and I apologize for that.
Cheers!
To be honest my friend, I do not trust anything Edge says for reasons that I will not disclose here...lets just say I have a lot of experience with their lack of knowledge, their tuners and their issues. Let me explain in a bit more detail what the dealer/tech can see.
First, if you leave the vehicle tuned, like I said above, they can tell by comparing parameters that the vehicle has been tuned. That being said, if the vehicle is flashed back to stock, they cannot tell anything aside from the KAM being erased and a P1000 code present...both of which are indicative to either a dead battery or being flash tuned.
In more detail, when a vehicle is flashed, whether it be with a tune or back to stock, the ECM KAM (keep all memory) is erased and a P1000 code is stored(which means emissions controls have been reset and idle tables figures have not been stored), which basically boils down to a complete drive cycle has not been performed. P1000 is basically an invisible code that is stored in the ECM only and does not throw a check engine light. It can only be found with a scanner or factory software. Now all of those exact flags like I said, also show up when a battery has been disconnected for more than 30 minutes too.
So you have 2 ways around it....
1. Flash the vehicle back to stock and then complete a drive cycle before going to the dealer for service. A drive cycle consists of driving for 50 miles all the while, driving at different speeds including stop and go, highway, etc etc. Normal driving of course, from low speed to highways speeds. That then fills the idle tables and stores emissions information too. Therefore leaving no trace of the vehicle ECM ever being tampered with!
2. If the vehicle is not drivable, you then can flash the vehicle back to stock and then turn on the radio and other power accessories to run the battery down to dead status. That then, (if you recall what I said above as far as the battery being disconnected causing the same things), makes the vehicle KAM become erased, emissions tables reset and P1000 code be stored. The difference is, the battery being dead gives you a viable and 100% believable excuse as to why those things were stored in the computer. Hence, making it look like just a dead battery issue, therefore no one becomes the wiser. You just wait to call the tow truck and then use the excuse that the tow truck took so long, you were listening to music and such while you were waiting.
All of the above is direct first hand experience that I have and not speculation. Hopefully it gives a better understanding of how the ECM operates, as far as flash tuning is concerned, and helps to put to rest, some of the fear of using a flash tuner.
Cheers![/QUOTE]
Former Sponsor
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Columbus OH
Speed,
I've had the same info given to me when I tried to look deeper into exactly if Ford can read any footprints from a tuner and basically came to the same conclusion from a variety of sources. It's a common and very legitimate question for somebody to ask when considering tuning their truck/car with a warranty.
Nice write up!
I've had the same info given to me when I tried to look deeper into exactly if Ford can read any footprints from a tuner and basically came to the same conclusion from a variety of sources. It's a common and very legitimate question for somebody to ask when considering tuning their truck/car with a warranty.
Nice write up!
Former Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: so fla
To see the footprints left by a tuner, you'd have to read the PCM out, its not like it shows up when you say 'check for footprints' or anything like that.
I am not familiar with any dealer level tool that has the ability to read the PCM out.
I am not familiar with any dealer level tool that has the ability to read the PCM out.
Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Kentucky
Yes the dealership will know if you have flashed your PCM because it will leave a dtc code P-1000 which means your PCM has been flashed. Your clear dtc on your tuner will not clear the P-1000 code but it will go away after many cycles of starting the engine. I work for ford for 21 years now and I flashed my 2006 f-150 5.4L with bully dog tuner. I had k&n cold air intake, jet mass airflow sensor, throttle body spacer, and rough exhaust. When I got a check engine light and the engine was running rough I put back the stock tune and headed to the dealership for repair and it was still under warranty. They diagnosed the problem and asked if I had a super chip on it because of the P-1000 code that came up. Of course I said no and I found out that 3 coil packs burned up. The dealership reflashed my PCM and my tuner never worked again.
P1000 - Ford
Type Powertrain - Manufacturer Controlled DTC - Manufacturer Controlled
Description
OBD II Monitor Testing Not Complete Conditions
Cause
Key on or engine running, this code is set when a PCM Reset is performed and then one or more of the OBD II Main Monitors have not been completed It should be cleared from the PCM to pass an I/M Test for registration
P1000 - Ford
Type Powertrain - Manufacturer Controlled DTC - Manufacturer Controlled
Description
OBD II Monitor Testing Not Complete Conditions
Cause
Key on or engine running, this code is set when a PCM Reset is performed and then one or more of the OBD II Main Monitors have not been completed It should be cleared from the PCM to pass an I/M Test for registration