Hi JMC,

Excellent point, and it goes to show just why the Jet & Hypetech programs do virtually nothing anywhere except WOT (wide-open throttle). Marketing hype from their web site is one thing, it's an entirely different matter when you actually bother to test, or take a look at the code in one of their units.

Those functions, spark maps, fuel tables etc., will occasionally be in the same place for a code or 2 or a few perhaps in the same code template family, but the bottom line is that they are basically in different locations from one code to the next, let alone from one model year to the next, so with that Jet unit of yours being able to be run on any year with a 4.6 manual tranny from 1997 on up thru 2000 or 2001, a total of 4 or 5 different model years, on all of the hundreds of different factory software revisions (computer codes) that exist for 4-5 model years of 4.6 manual-tranny F-150's, what does that tell you about how much good it could ever potentially do?

When you ask anyone who has ever actually tried both the Jet and the Superchip on the same vehicle, or to anyone who has tried both the Hypertech and the Superchip on the same vehicle, you always get the same answer, at least, here on F-150 Online we always have. Every single time that has been done, for all these years here on F-150 Online, every single person has posted that they preferred the Superchip hands down over either the Jet or Hypertech. Many have said that they could feel the Superchip when they couldn't feel much, if anything, from either of the others. This is just one of the main reasons why, this issue of their completely "generic" programming being so ineffective in comparison to Superchips' method of making a different performance program for each and every different factory software revision. With these F-150's, it's more important than ever, as more of them are built than any other vehicle in this country (750,000 a year), and as a result, they have more different factory codes for each model year than just about any other vehicle, by a large margin in most cases, making code-specific programming all the more important.

How many times have we all seen people post that they wish they had known the difference in how they would feel *before* they got their Jet chip, or their Hypertech chip, etc.? We've literally lost count.

Now, the bottom line is still, everyone should do whatever *they* feel will work best for them, for their vehicle, whatever they feel will make them the happiest, whatever that may be. And we hope that no matter what anyone selects, they'll be happy.

 

"From there we start to modify the spark advance and fuel curve in 500 rpm increments until we achieve the maximum torque and horsepower ... "

From JET's Tuning Introduction:


"The programming changes to each JET chip are extensive and include modified spark advance tables, air fuel ratio modification, torque converter lockup (in automatics), shift improvement in electronic automatic transmission and various other parameters to optimize the torque and horsepower curve for each individual application. Chassis Dynamometer tuning allows JET to develop a specific program for each application.
Every vehicle is first tested in a stock configuration to get baseline dynamometer and track times. To do this the vehicle is connected to JET's custom data acquisition system to monitor various sensors. Engine temperature, spark advance and air/fuel ratios, all this data is then recorded and stored away for later comparison.
From there we start to modify the spark advance and fuel curve in 500 rpm increments until we achieve the maximum torque and horsepower at the drive wheels in each rpm and load range, this allows turning under all types of various driving conditions and not just wide open throttle, a decisive advantage to the JET chip!"


BTW, didn't you **imply** that only the Superchip was "50 state legal"?

From JET's FAQ's:

IS JET Performance Power Tuning emissions legal?

"Yes. All JET Performance Power Tuning products are 50 state emissions legal. They do not change the emissions at all from the stock tuning chip for any Federal or local emissions test. C.A.R.B. (California Air Resources Board) has issued Executive Order numbers D-234 through D-234-4 covering all JET Performance Power Chips, making JET Performance chips the most complete line of high-performance chips that can legally be sold, installed, and driven in the state of California. Because of C.A.R.B.'s very rigid rules concerning exhaust emissions, the Environmental Protection Agency ( E.P.A. ) accepts C.A.R.B. approval as evidence that an aftermarket part is clean and suitable for use in all other states."

 

I just junked my jet chip ............it was trash......"get a superchip"

 

Hey Buffalo don't you ever let up? So you were one of the very few people that did not have a good experience with your Superchip, I am sure people can appreciate that. This forum should not be used to harrass Mike at every chance you get. If you would like to let people know that your Superchip experience was not a good one that is fine. That is what these forums are for. But responding to any of Mike's posts just for the sake of being heard is getting ridiculous and I am sure Steve will agree. You should resolve your problems with Mike offline as per vendor posting rules.

 

This **is** the "Computer Chip" forum, not just the "Superchip" forum, but a lot of (most) people prefer the Superchip, and I agree that it's a good chip ... but I don't think it's right (probably not the only person to think so) to see info being posted that doesn't jive with what is printed on the "Official" web sites of the *non*Superchips. I've even stated that I prefer Superchip to JET or Hypertech, BTW. Also, I don't think this needs to go "offline", just because Mike implies that JET tunes only at WOT, but JET's site states that they tune "in 500 RPM increments." That sure doesn't mean that JET "tunes" better than Superchip, but there's no harm in trying to clarify that "in 500 RPM increments" doesn't translate to "WOT only" tuning.

Take care ...

 

This IS a Superchips website:

Others have posted the same thing. This forum is dominated by sales techniques and rarely used for just sharing information. I would ask that we as consumers either go elsewhere to discuss the chip issue, or that we address this with the webmaster. I personally am tired of all the advertising.... if the product is so good let it sell itself.

Bubba

 

I agree that this forum should be used to discuss all chips from all vendors. I wish there was someone like Mike from other vendors willing to come here and share information as well. As I said in my last post I am supportive of people sharing their experiences good and bad. What I meant for BuffaloZ to take offline was your conflict with Mike. I have seen in your previous posts that you had problems with your chip. I would hope that you have used the proper channels to resolve them before coming to the Forum to attack Mike everytime he speaks. I do not yet have a chip and I think it would be great if someone from Diablo, Jet and Hypertech would come here and offer the same valuable support Mike offers. That would definitely help them sell more I am sure. I believe a Diablo rep was here briefly but did not follow Steve's rules. I am not asking anyone to stop sharing information about chip experiences because it will help me make up my mind but BuffaloZone's posts all seem personal towards Mike and are just about splitting hairs. It smells like Rand's posts every six months about his gas mileage issues with the chip.
Bubba I agree that advertising should not be allowed but technical information and support should be.

 

Hey Norm, what's wrong with what Buffalo is doing? It doesn't sound to me like he's persuing a vendetta against SuperChips, just merely pointing out what other vendors are claiming, as does Mike. Isn't this forum about ALL chips?

I for one commend BuffaloZone for taking the time to post the information on the other chip brands. It's too bad that we don't have actively contributing vendors of other brands around here as things tend to get awful 1-sided at times.

BuffaloZone, keep it coming man!

 

Y2K, Please read my post right above yours, we probably posted at the same time. I never said Buffalo was wrong and as long as it remains factual I am OK with it. The tone of some of Buffalo's posts seems confrontational, like he is trying to provoke a response from Mike. That is the only thing I have a problem with. There are other threads as well where this has taken place. I also approve of Buffalo presenting the facts but not as a challenge to Mike but rather as a sharing of information. Maybe it is just my perception and if so I apologize. I am not one to ruffle feathers.

 

I agree 100%, but if you think I'm trying to "attack" Mike for just questioning *conflicting* info ... what kind of eye-scratching do you think would take place if 3 or 4 "reps" kept digging at ... and correcting all the other reps, for sounding biased and implying something that they perceive to be incorrect or misleading? Actually, I don't think the chip buyers would ever get the chance to post. [Just kidding]

Quote:

As I said in my last post I am supportive of people sharing their experiences good and bad. What I meant for BuffaloZ to take offline was your conflict with Mike.

I don't see it as a conflict. I've kindly, for months (Another screen name), asked for Mike to please explain what he means by "WOT **only** ... when I was pretty for sure that what he posted *appeared* to conflict with what I read on other sites. He never explained ... and it did conflict with what I read. But the odd thing is, that I think the Superchip is better than the other chips that I've tested ... so far and, as was mentioned earlier, the chip "should sell itself", so I never understood the need for Mike to *imply*/over-sell the Superchip. Just my opinion.

Quote:

I am not asking anyone to stop sharing information about chip experiences because it will help me make up my mind but BuffaloZone's posts all seem personal towards Mike and are just about splitting hairs.

Sorry that you think that I'm "attacking", when I'm just trying to get honest answers. Oh well ...

 

I apologize as well, as I said it is just my perception that you are being confrontational. I do not mean to insult. The conflict I am refering to was discussed in another thread and highlighted by the "Defective Superchip" in your signature. If it is defective you should work with Mike or directly with Superchips (if Mike can not help to your satisfaction). Keeping that line in your signature is like fueling the fire.
Again maybe I misread the tension between the two of you and I apologize.

 

I have participated in other forums for things that I own and there hardly is any supplier support out there. Mike takes a lot of time for each issue and customer to explain the way the product works. He doesn't pressure anyone at all.

His e-mails to me are very descriptive and lengthy and I appreciate his efforts.

 

While I agree Mike does an excellent job supporting his products, as I wish more vendors would do. I think sometimes it gets to be a little overkill. Nothing against Mike but If you read this forum for about a week, It's all repetition after that. I mean like cut and paste type same answers. Nothing new. I tried to do a little digging on the Diablo a while back but didn't get a whole lot of info. Probably becasue it's relatvely new and there is not much exposure out there yet. Just my .02.

I'm going to let my truck get a few more miles on it then make my decision as to which chip to get.

Personally I think Superchips should have a design that fits in the ECU like the Diablo and does not need to be 'taped' to hold it down. This just does not strike me as a very reliable or professional solution.

 

I too think that there should be more information about other performance chips. I don't think it is fare to blame Mike for the fact that there isn't. I think if people were to look out in the world at how other products are marketed they would see many similarities.
Does anyone really think they are getting "all" the information about the products they use? If we want "all" of the information we have to get it ourselves. I think we get a hell of a lot more information from Mike than we get from other vendors, rep's, whetever they are all called.
Yes there is repetition. I think I understastand why. Remember when you were new here? I do. Mike gave a great introduction. I bought into the "pitch" because I liked it. Not because I am a drone. I checked out other chips. I was unable to find enough information to convince me. I found it here.
If we want to complain about all the repetition maybe the webmaster could start a new catigory. I'm sure many members would have something to say about repetition.
It would be great to know more about other chips. So get some one in here! You people who have a problem with Superchips could try to contact some one from the other companies and let them know what is going on here. If they want the buisness they will come. They better be good though.
Let us not forget that we are free to pass on information about our experiances with the chips we use. So bring it on! If you don't like what Mike has to say, pass it by. If people want to talk about all chips, talk! We will see all the stuff from Mike here because Performance Products is a vendor. This dosen't mean we can't talk about the other chips.
Hey, I'm just one of around 14,000 of us. It really makes no difference what I think. Are any of you any different? I just hope you all keep writing about something. I like the reading. Perhaps something more constructive would make for more interesting reading.
Have a great day!
Tom

 

HI Irutt,

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Superchip has to be taped to the ECU to work, and that isn't the case at all, I've never taped the one in my car.

You may feel differently, but personally, I think it's a mistake to start passing judgement about something you have no experience with, that you've never used, etc.

I'll explain a bit about this, just to give you some more info...........

Anytime we install the Superchip in any vehicle that is a pickup truck or has 4WD, we do indeed place tape on part of the Superchip to the back of the ECU very neatly, with some clear Scotch tape; not because this is needed to make it work or to keep it attached in normal use, it's not. This is done simply as a precautionary measure in case the vehicle should get into an impact event, hit a big pothole offroading, etc. It is *not* something that has to be done to every Superchip because of it's design. We do not tape them on any other vehicle type, only on vehicles that tend to have rougher suspensions and/or may see offroad use.

Another point in this is that the Superchip used to be a heavier module, and that has been redesigned to weigh less than half of what it used to, resulting in even fewer instances of an interrupted connection after a serious impact event.

When you actually examine & compare just how good a grip on the J3 male connector the various devices on the market have, there isn't anything that grips that connector tighter than the current Superchip. In a worst-case scenario impact event of some kind, I would *much* rather have something on the outside of the computer where it cannot harm anything inside the computer if it should become dislodged, than have it come detached and able to be loose inside the computer.

It's quite clear here from the many people using the Superchip that this is not an issue that is causing reliability problems, etc., we don't see any pattern of that here on the message boards or among our customers. As long as that Superchip is properly installed, you aren't going to have any such problems unless you get into a serious impact, in which case, you're going to have far larger problems on your hands.

Obviously you have to do whatever makes you feel most comfortable Irutt, and we'd be the first to agree, you shouldn't do anything to your vehicle that makes you feel uncomfortable, absolutely! You have to do whatever makes you feel most comfortable, whatever that may be.

If you'd like to try the Superchip or the Diablo unit, just give us a shout and we can certainly arrange that for you.

Best of luck,