Troyer Dynotune report:
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 299
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Yep.
I've been trying to send this message for years. Hopefully the ******* who refuse to believe this will listen to you
. It's usually the same ******* who never call the feller himself when it's suggested.
Their loss - the conversations I've had with the man were always enlightening (required equipment = a chair, a pad and pencil, some libations for hydration and food. Oh, and a good long-distance plan and possibly a pillow
)
It's worth the call if you have any doubts or concerns. It really is.
MGD
I've been trying to send this message for years. Hopefully the ******* who refuse to believe this will listen to you
. It's usually the same ******* who never call the feller himself when it's suggested. Their loss - the conversations I've had with the man were always enlightening (required equipment = a chair, a pad and pencil, some libations for hydration and food. Oh, and a good long-distance plan and possibly a pillow
) It's worth the call if you have any doubts or concerns. It really is.
MGD
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: Sheffield Lake, Ohio
Only if you don't know how to tune and only load base files.
You don't use base files to dyno tune unless you don't know how to write one yourself from scratch. Good dyno tuning requires extensive data logging, and writing the file parameters based on those logs, then re-running the dyno with more data logging, and addressing both part and WOT, more pulls, etc.
Mike doesn't use base files, especially those from SCT, including those he wrote for SCT. I've watched him tune countless vehicles and he writes all the values from scratch, based on the vehicle, PCM code, mods, condition (such as mileage on O2 sensors), etc. I've yet to see him knock out a mail order tune in 15 minutes, which would be easy to accomplish with a base file. Call Mike up and tell him what you think... be prepared to be schooled for a good hour or so on the phone. He knows his stuff. I'll give you an example, the MAF transfer function Roush supplies works and doesn't need rewriting for a "good" tune. Mike redoes the MAF transfer from scratch for each vehicle he puts on the dyno, so the results aren't just good, they are great. It adds up to more than just raw HP and torque numbers and ETs, but overall driveability, safety and longevity.
SCT's base files are "one size fits all" with no consideration to the PCM code, vehicle condition, vehicle use, etc.
You don't use base files to dyno tune unless you don't know how to write one yourself from scratch. Good dyno tuning requires extensive data logging, and writing the file parameters based on those logs, then re-running the dyno with more data logging, and addressing both part and WOT, more pulls, etc.
Mike doesn't use base files, especially those from SCT, including those he wrote for SCT. I've watched him tune countless vehicles and he writes all the values from scratch, based on the vehicle, PCM code, mods, condition (such as mileage on O2 sensors), etc. I've yet to see him knock out a mail order tune in 15 minutes, which would be easy to accomplish with a base file. Call Mike up and tell him what you think... be prepared to be schooled for a good hour or so on the phone. He knows his stuff. I'll give you an example, the MAF transfer function Roush supplies works and doesn't need rewriting for a "good" tune. Mike redoes the MAF transfer from scratch for each vehicle he puts on the dyno, so the results aren't just good, they are great. It adds up to more than just raw HP and torque numbers and ETs, but overall driveability, safety and longevity.
SCT's base files are "one size fits all" with no consideration to the PCM code, vehicle condition, vehicle use, etc.
LOL... ok if you say so, they must have some secret tuning methods nobody else uses then. Maybe that's why it takes 6 hours to tune a vehicle.
Good luck
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Joined: Feb 2004
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MGD
Last edited by Rockpick; Jul 26, 2010 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Huge pic removed.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,803
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From: North Canton, Ohio
Hi Marc,
I've never taken my Cobra to the track, I don't think I could do it justice...lol
I can't rip through gears like I use to.
I've been out there though a couple of times this year with a couple friends of mine and their Mustangs.
My buddy John (WS6JJP) had an 03 with the same mods I have and he ran an 11.20 @ 128.55 on DR's with a lot of spin, and he can drive the **** out of a car.
I originally had my car tuned by James when he owned Runnin With The Devil and several years ago after porting the blower I had it re-tuned by Jerry Wreblewski from SCT. Jerry was "the man" back in the day with Fords.
The car currently makes 502 hp at the tire and for me that's enough. I was going to go the twin screw route a year or two ago but didn't. Who knows, I might still do it but it's just not that important.
Come on out to Quaker Steak and Lube on Sunday in Sheffield some time.
I've never taken my Cobra to the track, I don't think I could do it justice...lol
I can't rip through gears like I use to.
I've been out there though a couple of times this year with a couple friends of mine and their Mustangs.
My buddy John (WS6JJP) had an 03 with the same mods I have and he ran an 11.20 @ 128.55 on DR's with a lot of spin, and he can drive the **** out of a car.
I originally had my car tuned by James when he owned Runnin With The Devil and several years ago after porting the blower I had it re-tuned by Jerry Wreblewski from SCT. Jerry was "the man" back in the day with Fords.
The car currently makes 502 hp at the tire and for me that's enough. I was going to go the twin screw route a year or two ago but didn't. Who knows, I might still do it but it's just not that important.
Come on out to Quaker Steak and Lube on Sunday in Sheffield some time.
No foolin, I know Jerry, and you are right that he was the FORD guy @ SCT.
When do you guys meet at Quaker Steak?
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 64
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From: Sheffield Lake, Ohio
We usually meet up at QSL every sunday around 4pm. it gets packed.
This Saturday Elyria Ford is hosting a pretty nice show at 9am.
http://www.ncmco.org/web-storage/Act...hnClor.doc.pdf
Last edited by Rockpick; Jul 26, 2010 at 05:03 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 299
Likes: 2
I know Jerry and I feel he probably wouldn't like his personal finances aired on a public forum. Might want to edit that out, its really no one's business except those he tells personally.
As to tuning today, Jerry isn't out of the game but I can say that he isn't unequaled and in some cases surpassed with certain vehicles. There are some guys out there who have spent a lot of time and money learning the ropes. He did some stuff on my vehicle and I can tell you that both Troyer and my own tunes were better. Not knocking the guy at all... if it were a Mustang you can bet I'd see him about it... but no one other than Mike, Eric Brooks and I tune my PCM these days. If you want someone who can tune most any Ford well, Jerry's very good. In my case though, I'm dealing with not most any Fords, but an F150.
The thing with F150s, unlike the Cobras, is there are a lot more parameters which need to be addressed, many things to correct which Ford didn't do right, knowledge of how the F150 specifically reacts to certain changes such as which intakes require work on the MAF transfer, proper transport delay times for long tubes, knock sensor issues, dealing with higher loads, the stresses the 4R75E has with such a heavy vehicle, the limitations of the stock converter in the F150 and a more fundamental knowledge of the different PCM box codes. The F150 has hundreds of different box codes, the Cobra only a handful (plus its tuning is better in stock form than the F150). Unlike the Cobra, the F150 has fundamental problems with the drive-by-wire tuning. You can do the quick and dirty hack and change a couple of parameters to mask the issues or redo the controls from scratch so it operates not only quicker but properly.
As to tuning today, Jerry isn't out of the game but I can say that he isn't unequaled and in some cases surpassed with certain vehicles. There are some guys out there who have spent a lot of time and money learning the ropes. He did some stuff on my vehicle and I can tell you that both Troyer and my own tunes were better. Not knocking the guy at all... if it were a Mustang you can bet I'd see him about it... but no one other than Mike, Eric Brooks and I tune my PCM these days. If you want someone who can tune most any Ford well, Jerry's very good. In my case though, I'm dealing with not most any Fords, but an F150.
The thing with F150s, unlike the Cobras, is there are a lot more parameters which need to be addressed, many things to correct which Ford didn't do right, knowledge of how the F150 specifically reacts to certain changes such as which intakes require work on the MAF transfer, proper transport delay times for long tubes, knock sensor issues, dealing with higher loads, the stresses the 4R75E has with such a heavy vehicle, the limitations of the stock converter in the F150 and a more fundamental knowledge of the different PCM box codes. The F150 has hundreds of different box codes, the Cobra only a handful (plus its tuning is better in stock form than the F150). Unlike the Cobra, the F150 has fundamental problems with the drive-by-wire tuning. You can do the quick and dirty hack and change a couple of parameters to mask the issues or redo the controls from scratch so it operates not only quicker but properly.
Last edited by DigitalMarket; Jul 15, 2010 at 05:04 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,803
Likes: 1
From: North Canton, Ohio
I remember Jerry telling me when he got a check from the sale of SCT for 3 mil and the house he was building in Fla. pretty crazy. I think he had a few family problems after that and has since dropped out of sight. Smart guy though. He would make just about every one of these guys that tune today look like chumps.
We usually meet up at QSL every sunday around 4pm. it gets packed.
This Saturday Elyria Ford is hosting a pretty nice show at 9am.
http://www.ncmco.org/web-storage/Act...hnClor.doc.pdf
We usually meet up at QSL every sunday around 4pm. it gets packed.
This Saturday Elyria Ford is hosting a pretty nice show at 9am.
http://www.ncmco.org/web-storage/Act...hnClor.doc.pdf
Nice people.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,031
Likes: 45
From: The Shenandoah Valley
^i think it was about a 3 to 4 weeks from the time I called til the day it was was the dyno.
--they told me that they would get to the truck either the 6th or 7th of july, ended up being the 7th
--took him 4 hours...He said that if it is a stock truck and everything goes perfect it takes 2 hours, he said most trucks take 4 hours to get right, but sometimes a truck doesnt want to cooperate so it may take 6 to 8 hours. He said that it would not leave his shop until it was perfect.
--the programmer was a sctx3 and cost $399 ( 3 custom tunes included)
it was $75 a hour while he was dyno tuning the truck
--so it ended up costing me $718 (tax included), more than I was expecting but I am very pleased with how the truck is performing
--they told me that they would get to the truck either the 6th or 7th of july, ended up being the 7th
--took him 4 hours...He said that if it is a stock truck and everything goes perfect it takes 2 hours, he said most trucks take 4 hours to get right, but sometimes a truck doesnt want to cooperate so it may take 6 to 8 hours. He said that it would not leave his shop until it was perfect.
--the programmer was a sctx3 and cost $399 ( 3 custom tunes included)
it was $75 a hour while he was dyno tuning the truck
--so it ended up costing me $718 (tax included), more than I was expecting but I am very pleased with how the truck is performing
Nice facility, it was there for a couiple years before I even knew what it was up on that hill.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,759
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From: Friendswood Texas
Is it possible to start with a base tune or from scratch and end up with the same result?
if someone can take a base tune and give a similar product as one from scratch, what is the advantage?
doing something the hard way is not always the best way.
what is the harm in having say a base paramiter or each year model, engine, 4 x 4 or 4 x 2, cab configuration and rear end ratio and code.
if someone can take a base tune and give a similar product as one from scratch, what is the advantage?
doing something the hard way is not always the best way.
what is the harm in having say a base paramiter or each year model, engine, 4 x 4 or 4 x 2, cab configuration and rear end ratio and code.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 299
Likes: 2
Is it possible to start with a base tune or from scratch and end up with the same result?
if someone can take a base tune and give a similar product as one from scratch, what is the advantage?
doing something the hard way is not always the best way.
what is the harm in having say a base paramiter or each year model, engine, 4 x 4 or 4 x 2, cab configuration and rear end ratio and code.
if someone can take a base tune and give a similar product as one from scratch, what is the advantage?
doing something the hard way is not always the best way.
what is the harm in having say a base paramiter or each year model, engine, 4 x 4 or 4 x 2, cab configuration and rear end ratio and code.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
I have the 4.6 as well! Have you had yours tuned? was the 220 rwhp and 250 rwtq on just the performance parts with no tune?
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Senior Member
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 31,440
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From: The Bluegrass State
Only if you don't know how to tune and only load base files.
You don't use base files to dyno tune unless you don't know how to write one yourself from scratch. Good dyno tuning requires extensive data logging, and writing the file parameters based on those logs, then re-running the dyno with more data logging, and addressing both part and WOT, more pulls, etc.
Mike doesn't use base files, especially those from SCT, including those he wrote for SCT. I've watched him tune countless vehicles and he writes all the values from scratch, based on the vehicle, PCM code, mods, condition (such as mileage on O2 sensors), etc. I've yet to see him knock out a mail order tune in 15 minutes, which would be easy to accomplish with a base file. Call Mike up and tell him what you think... be prepared to be schooled for a good hour or so on the phone. He knows his stuff. I'll give you an example, the MAF transfer function Roush supplies works and doesn't need rewriting for a "good" tune. Mike redoes the MAF transfer from scratch for each vehicle he puts on the dyno, so the results aren't just good, they are great. It adds up to more than just raw HP and torque numbers and ETs, but overall driveability, safety and longevity.
SCT's base files are "one size fits all" with no consideration to the PCM code, vehicle condition, vehicle use, etc.
You don't use base files to dyno tune unless you don't know how to write one yourself from scratch. Good dyno tuning requires extensive data logging, and writing the file parameters based on those logs, then re-running the dyno with more data logging, and addressing both part and WOT, more pulls, etc.
Mike doesn't use base files, especially those from SCT, including those he wrote for SCT. I've watched him tune countless vehicles and he writes all the values from scratch, based on the vehicle, PCM code, mods, condition (such as mileage on O2 sensors), etc. I've yet to see him knock out a mail order tune in 15 minutes, which would be easy to accomplish with a base file. Call Mike up and tell him what you think... be prepared to be schooled for a good hour or so on the phone. He knows his stuff. I'll give you an example, the MAF transfer function Roush supplies works and doesn't need rewriting for a "good" tune. Mike redoes the MAF transfer from scratch for each vehicle he puts on the dyno, so the results aren't just good, they are great. It adds up to more than just raw HP and torque numbers and ETs, but overall driveability, safety and longevity.
SCT's base files are "one size fits all" with no consideration to the PCM code, vehicle condition, vehicle use, etc.