I'm going to say this just one more time, and then I'll just shut up. Discuss what you've done with Justin! Find out if what you've done with his tunes is a reasonable adjustment. You are not the expert - he is!

Here's an analogy: You're very ill an you visit your doctor. He correctly diagnoses your illness and prescribes a course of medication that must be taken daily for no less than one week. After four days, you feel fine so you stop taking the medication. (Why medicate when you don't need it?) Two months later, you're dead.

- Jack

 

Jack -

Thanks for the feedback. I promise to let Justin know specifically what I did and what his recommendations are verbatim. I'm old and wise enough to admit my wrong doings on this thread and thank you if you are correct. I'm the 1st to admit I'm no expert when it comes to this sort of thing. Stay tuned...Merry Christmas! :santa:

 

Adjusting shift firmness via the program is fine!! Everyone likes different things and a tuner can't possibly know exactly what you want unless you're sitting in the truck and trying it out. Sure you could go back and forth with them but you can do the same thing with your handheld. I have a feeling that Justin is going to tell you that it's perfectly okay to adjust the shift firmness with the programmer.

 

For the final answer...

Shift firmness is largely personal preference, I do not make it overly harsh, but slightly firmer than stock. If you like a very firm shift you can use the on device adjustments on the SCT tuner to add up to 25% to each gear. You will not damage anything or over work the pump. There are a lot of myths out there about trans tuning, any good hardware mod should be accompanied by good software changes, and one or the other is not necessarily better but largely depends on what you want to do. My 10 sec twin turbo mustang needs a valve body shift kit like the J-mod because it can not fill the accumulators fast enough to shift in time at WOT with the 4R70/75W (trans used in F150s), but for a truck driving around town the acceleration rate is not fast enough to require a valve body modification, even with 4.56s. Raising shift pressure in the tune is actually perfectly fine, the problem is when you physically mess with the EPC solenoid to raise it higher than intended, that is what causes trans failures.

 

Excellent, you have gone down the proper road of datalogging and fine tuning, without data there is very little that can be done.

 

So then for us F150 owners then what is the MAX that you recommend.
25% of what?
That's what I was trying to point out in my other post.
Just want to know for safety's sake.
Not trying to beat a dead horse.

 

Hey guys, This is some great information. I feel like I am slowly getting an education about programers but I'm still a little confused. I see shift firmness as that instant when the trans shifts to the next gear. Is the TC lockup separate from the shift point? Do the pressure adjustmnets control the torque converter lockup too or is this programed totally separately from the shift firmness?

Ford One

 

Thanks again Justin for your help on this topic. This is one great thread.

 

Justin - If you read this, I'd like to clarify just one thing?

In the X3, when we're talking "shift firmness" as a user adjustment, we ARE talking changing line pressures, right? That's what everyone seems to think is happening and I'd like to know if it IS different than the Edge/Gryphon which adjusts the delay between clutch release and lockup (according to Bill Cohron).

And, glad to see you jump in here now and then! It helps to keep us amateurs honest.

- Jack

 

Now there's a man who knows what he is doing and provides professional honest feedback. I asked him for his opinion, let him know what I tweaked and he went above and beyond by taking time out of his busy day to respond directly on this website.

Justin, I thank you for a great product and prompt customer service.

For those of you shopping as I did. Feel confident in www.vmptuning.com.

Merry Christmas!

 

I agree, good information.

 

The SCT X2, X3, and Livewire allow for on device adjustments, the two items relating to the transmission are shift pressure/firmness, and Wide Open Throttle shift point.

97-08 F150s use a 4R70W trans (4R75W since 04). This is still a relatively simplistic trans with only two shift solenoids and an actual valve body with accumulators, basically an electronic evolution of the AOD from the 80s.

On the older EEC based trucks we did not have as much control, though it was still totally sufficient.

On the newer PPC trucks there is more control for the same old trans.

To get more to your question, on 04+ there is control of shifting pressure and slip times, which both effect shift feel. I do alter both in my end of the tune (which is 100x more complicated than what you see on the on device adjustments). However, the on device adjustments only alter shifting pressure, by + or - 25%. Adjusting those parameters is adequate for the end user to tweak the feel to their individual liking, the max the tuner allows for is +/- 25% of the entire table, based on the values I already put in there, it is fine to run up to the max allowed adjustment you will not hurt anything. Based on your question, the gryphon may be adjusting slip times, or you could be referring to torque converter control (which has a big effect on feel, acceleration, and fuel mileage as well, but thats another story).

On the SCT tuners the WOT shift point in MPH can be adjusted, but may not always be effective due to the way the computer uses two shift points, an RPM based one, and a MPH based one, and picks whichever comes first. There is also a pretty big inherent delay in when a shift is commanded and when it actually happens due to accumulator fill times and acceleration rates. IE a truck with 3.55s may command a 1-2 shift at 5000rpm and it may happen at 5200rpm, but with 4.56s the faster acceleration rate would cause the shift to not occur until 5500rpm.

The 09+ trucks with the 6spd trans are much more complicated because they do not use a traditional valve body with accumulators, but they can still be effectively manipulated.

 

Absolutely. In first gear the converter never locks up. At WOT, converter lockup usually happens before the shift in 2nd and 3rd. Depending on programming there are instances where lock up and shift points coincide, but not typical of most shift points.

Pressure adjustments are a completely separate function from converter lockup and is based on torque (load) and speed. Stock parameters are very conservative for soft shifts. The larger number of truck buyers could give a rat's pa-toot about shift firmness, so it's a compromise, factory adjustment.

In your other thread you mentioned the GM turbo hydromatic transmissions. I meant to point out that the these older transmission didn't have lock up converters. Lock-up converters were created years later after overdrives came into play. The turbo transmissions were based on purely mechanical and hydraulic functions and vacuum input. These later transmissions are based on electronic inputs from solenoids operated by the PCM. The delay time (slip) Justin mentioned is also a parameter that impacts how crisp the shifts occur and is yet another transmission function that is also based on speed and torque (load).

 

Just about all US Ford gas engine shift/lock schedules are a 2 column and ~ 10 row function based on throttle position vs vehicle speed.