E85 and canned tunes
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From: Seabrook,NH
You have a 5.4. If it is marked as a flex fuel vehicle you can run E85 now. If not you need to keep reading. Do a search on here and all your answers will be found. Unfortunately "e85" is too short for a search term here so you will need to be creative. Search for flex fuel differences or something like that.
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
- Jack
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From: Appleton, WI
Yeah, I was digging for some info on something else and found this thread and it sounded like it E85 would work. But after a little more research I don't think it's a good idea.
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From: so fla
You wont find non E10 around here....and to assume it is causing issues in everything but ffv's is crazy!
With a custom tune, you can safely run E85 in just about anything these days. Its rare to find natural rubber in any fuel system anymore.
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From: Among javelinas and scorpions in Zoniestan
Pretty much anything built in the last 10 years or so is compatible with Ethanol based fuels.
You wont find non E10 around here....and to assume it is causing issues in everything but ffv's is crazy!
With a custom tune, you can safely run E85 in just about anything these days. Its rare to find natural rubber in any fuel system anymore.
You wont find non E10 around here....and to assume it is causing issues in everything but ffv's is crazy!
With a custom tune, you can safely run E85 in just about anything these days. Its rare to find natural rubber in any fuel system anymore.
However, one of our older members who posts here now and then, has said he has been burning E85 in his "older" vehicle with no problems. *shrug* (He's also a corn farmer.)
Nevertheless, I think corn alcohol belongs in what I drink, not my gas tank.
- Jack
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From: Joplin MO
I think we can safely say this - can you run a canned tune with E85 in a FLEX FUEL vehicle? Yes. If you want to run E85 in a non-flex fuel vehicle, there are modifications you must make to run it safely whether you have a programmer or not.
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From: Seabrook,NH
There is a big difference between E10 and E85.
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Yep.
..Now at idle, the A/F ratio on pump gas WITHOUT any ethanol content should be 14.64:1 - in reality, most widebands are generally going to jump around a bit between 14.5:1 - 14.8:1 as the PCM trims the fuel constantly, and that is normal. The actual stoich ratio will change based on the fuel formulation, these days primarily based on (when talking about pump gas) the amount of ethanol content - the more ethanol in the fuel, the leaner the engine will run in O/L UNLESS the motor is tuned for it. Now by law, all vehicles from 1979 & up are required to be able to run on up to 10% ethanol content by volume - that, and things like the % of allowed injector variance, etc., are why closed loop operation exists. However, when we do our custom tuning, we prefer to know if a customer is using ethanol-blended fuel so that we can dial it the actual stoich ratio as well as make other adjustments so the vehicle retains maximum adaptive capabilities and is as spot-on as possible...
..Ideally, yes - 10% ethanol blends reduce the stoch ratio from 14.64:1 to about 14.13:1, so what happens is, the more ethanol you use, the more it leans out the engine - now this is when we are talking about a vehicle that is NOT a "flex fuel" vehicle from the factory, like some of the 2006 F-150's are, for example - I just wanted to be clear about that.
Now in normal cruising around at less than about half-throttle or so, no, the ethanol won't make any difference other than reduce fuel mileage a little bit, as the system can compensate in closed loop for that amount of difference - it's when the engine is under a heavy load, operating in open loop, than it would lean out a bit with ethanol blended fuel like E-10, or what we use to call "gasohol."
Bottom line: the more ethanol you add, the less likely adaptive will be able to correct for the changes to stoich. For E85 in a non-FFV, tuning corrections will almost certainly be required to ensure the attendant lean conditions are addressed properly. I am NOT gonna debate the risks/merits of running E85 in such a vehicle ( personally, I wouldn't).
Much more info in the archives on this - all you gotta do is
OR - simply call a custom tuner - VMP, TP, or PHP. Y'all will need some quarter though - Searchin's cheaper
MGD
..Now at idle, the A/F ratio on pump gas WITHOUT any ethanol content should be 14.64:1 - in reality, most widebands are generally going to jump around a bit between 14.5:1 - 14.8:1 as the PCM trims the fuel constantly, and that is normal. The actual stoich ratio will change based on the fuel formulation, these days primarily based on (when talking about pump gas) the amount of ethanol content - the more ethanol in the fuel, the leaner the engine will run in O/L UNLESS the motor is tuned for it. Now by law, all vehicles from 1979 & up are required to be able to run on up to 10% ethanol content by volume - that, and things like the % of allowed injector variance, etc., are why closed loop operation exists. However, when we do our custom tuning, we prefer to know if a customer is using ethanol-blended fuel so that we can dial it the actual stoich ratio as well as make other adjustments so the vehicle retains maximum adaptive capabilities and is as spot-on as possible...
..Ideally, yes - 10% ethanol blends reduce the stoch ratio from 14.64:1 to about 14.13:1, so what happens is, the more ethanol you use, the more it leans out the engine - now this is when we are talking about a vehicle that is NOT a "flex fuel" vehicle from the factory, like some of the 2006 F-150's are, for example - I just wanted to be clear about that.
Now in normal cruising around at less than about half-throttle or so, no, the ethanol won't make any difference other than reduce fuel mileage a little bit, as the system can compensate in closed loop for that amount of difference - it's when the engine is under a heavy load, operating in open loop, than it would lean out a bit with ethanol blended fuel like E-10, or what we use to call "gasohol."
Much more info in the archives on this - all you gotta do is
OR - simply call a custom tuner - VMP, TP, or PHP. Y'all will need some quarter though - Searchin's cheaper
MGD
Last edited by MGDfan; Aug 25, 2010 at 08:40 AM.
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From: Appleton, WI
I did ask one of the mentioned tuners the question, and got back "2002 is too old of a vehicle to run E85". I'm sure it could be done with some modifications, but I'm not interested in doing that at this time. I just thought since I'm thinking about doing some tunes, now is the time to ask.
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From: Joplin MO
Like Chester says, with wideband O2's you could probably run half E85 and half gas with no problems. I wouldn't run any more alcohol than that, you will probably run too lean and trip a CEL.
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From: so fla
Id say we have been at the forefront of E85 tuning for quite a while now
Mike, I'm not trying to start a fight and I agree with you about the prevalence of E10. It's the same thing here - I've been burning nothing but E10 for as long as I can remember. But, I see a big difference between 10% ethanol and 85% ethanol and most everything I've read has told me not to use E85 in my vehicles unless they are "certified" for it.
However, one of our older members who posts here now and then, has said he has been burning E85 in his "older" vehicle with no problems. *shrug* (He's also a corn farmer.)
Nevertheless, I think corn alcohol belongs in what I drink, not my gas tank.
- Jack
However, one of our older members who posts here now and then, has said he has been burning E85 in his "older" vehicle with no problems. *shrug* (He's also a corn farmer.)
Nevertheless, I think corn alcohol belongs in what I drink, not my gas tank.
- Jack
He used to have a great sit (rune85.com) that had a complete teardown of the engine and fuel system on an old late 80s GM truck, that had been run 0n E85 for over 100,000 miles.
Every myth ever told about E85 was busted in this teardown, from the perfectly working stock GM fuel pump, to the non corroded lines, to the injectors which were flowed and tested, to the non scored cylinder walls, etc.
This whole 'certified' thing is political BS.
Surely you guys can see through all the political BS surrounding a cheap, subsidized, home brewed fuel in our oil run world....?
Nothing proper tuning cant compensate for
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From: Chicago, IL
Yes, for GM vehicles that were NOT built as FFVs.
Id say we have been at the forefront of E85 tuning for quite a while now
My buddy Andy Wicks (dynotuneUSA) is a huge E85 guy from SD, and everything he touches gets a tank full of corn.
He used to have a great sit (rune85.com) that had a complete teardown of the engine and fuel system on an old late 80s GM truck, that had been run 0n E85 for over 100,000 miles.
Every myth ever told about E85 was busted in this teardown, from the perfectly working stock GM fuel pump, to the non corroded lines, to the injectors which were flowed and tested, to the non scored cylinder walls, etc.
Id say we have been at the forefront of E85 tuning for quite a while now
My buddy Andy Wicks (dynotuneUSA) is a huge E85 guy from SD, and everything he touches gets a tank full of corn.
He used to have a great sit (rune85.com) that had a complete teardown of the engine and fuel system on an old late 80s GM truck, that had been run 0n E85 for over 100,000 miles.
Every myth ever told about E85 was busted in this teardown, from the perfectly working stock GM fuel pump, to the non corroded lines, to the injectors which were flowed and tested, to the non scored cylinder walls, etc.
also mike i swear there diablo made a E85 predator for mustangs.