Just curious but could mail tuners dial in better with a dyno chart with A/F readout from a dyno run after their progam has been loaded for the dyno run?

 

Yes, also the person running the dyno will be able to data log very easily once the vehicle is hooked up.

 

Well then its a good thing I placed my order this week!!!

 

Yeah, PLEASE don't let it sound like mail-order custom tunes from Bill, Troyer, or VMP are a waste of money! Many people love them, and have no need for a dyno. I can attest to "custom tunes", whether your vehicle hit a dyno or not. It's really a GREAT place to start, as the driveability will be greatly improved. That's one thing you CAN'T get on the dyno like you can on the road from testing/tuning. But the dyno can fine tune certain things, and possibly net more power output, and a safer tune (more directed at forced induction).

 

I don't think mail ordered tunes are a waste but I know the odds of getting all levels 100% isn't likely. I'm going with mail ordered custom tunes but I will be on the dyno at some point and if there is more on the table I want to know the best way to get it. There is a shop somewhat close to me but they are getting $500 for a X-Cal 2 and 1 tune. They are good and will get the most HP without hurting reliability in any way but I like having the option of alternate tunes for the same/less money even if they aren't 100%. I just like knowing the fact that they can be better possibly with more data.

 

For the first time since I joined I am dissapointed with Bill, If there is a sign up list some where for custom tunes put my name on it, John S. Becker
I guess i'm screwed since I already own the Edge.

 

I would say i guess we are all screwed as current Edge owners. We until now have been able to have ours custonized as we customize our trucks. I was in the process of changing my exhaust again and getting a CAI in the summer and then was going to have a custom tune done for my edge. I guess cannot do that now. To me Edge has made a mistake for all of its current owners that thought of the custom route. Maybe when I was thinkin about goin the Troyer route I was thinkin correctly. It also upsets me that just because California has its own emission standards that everyone else in the US especially in the country where there are little or no emissions laws that we must suffer. To me this is aka bad business. To me this makes my Edge worth nothing now as far as resale is concerned. I wish that Edge and you Bill could/would have announced this sooner.
Glenn

 

The way I read it is that Edge must not allow for the evolution to have custom tunes installed on it to meet with current emmisions standards this allows their product to distribute to the broader market of the general public who don't mod their trucks.
I don't think you can fault Bill here. He does not produce the evolution and is at Edge's disposal, if Edge says no more custom tuning on our product then theres not much you can do, at least he is willing to support current customers and also designing his own system for everyone else.

 

Not unless we ALL bought an Evolution with the intention of having it custom tuned by Bill. Most of us bought Evolutions before there was any possibility of it being custom tuned, so we all got what we paid for.

 

i mentioned this issue awhile back about custom tuning the edge with the carb,epa issue-guess what i heard was true-not bills fault-his hands are tied

 

You know, Glenn, I really am sorry to see the stance you are taking. It appears to me that you are under the impression I had any choice in the matter about discontinuing custom tuning or even when to announce this. I brought this to everyone's attention as soon as I was made aware of it.

I got an e-mail Thursday from the GM at Edge that asked me to please discontinue any further custom tuning on the Evolution as it could jeopardize the emissions certifications on their products as well as their relationship with CARB and the EPA. Now I could make a stink because technically I have a contract with Edge that states I am allowed to exclusively provide custom tuning until June 30th, 2008, but frankly it's not worth ruining the relationship I have with Edge.

I must say that I find it amusing that you suddenly find your Evolution "worthless" because it can't be custom tuned. Was it worthless when you bought it? Was it worthless 3 months ago when there wasn't custom tuning available? To some degree it may have been, since it never did actually make your vehicle run like you had expected and I am sorry if that is your perception. However, there are a number of folks on here that would be happy to take it off your hands for a reasonable price and given the way you feel about, maybe it's your best option.

I am not trying to gripe at you and I am certainly not angry. I just wanted to point out that it's not my choice, and if you think about it you really can't blame Edge either. They are a business and they have to do what they feel is right, even if it doesn't make sense.

 

Just so everyone understands, I cannot customize "Evolution" branded products. We do, however, offer a private labeled version of the hardware that is nearly identical in every respect. The biggest difference is that we provide our own tuning and therefore accept responsibility for any EPA action. We did not design our own competing programmer.

I will also continue to help resolve any "driveability" issues with the Evolution. If anyone has any questions regarding this, I would be happy to discuss this with you in person.

 

Bill,
I did not mean to come across as I though it was your choice to stop custom tuning. I want to apologize for that, and to anyone that took it that way. I fell that Edge has made a mistake by cutting you ability to provide that service to us. I will never have a super modded truck but there may be things added that I would be better off with a sort of custom tune (i.e. a CAI) I dont plan on going in a direction to a heavly modded truck. I just am after some good off the line performance and the occasional towing help. Also somewhat better gas mileage. I made the statement of "worthless" as that is how I feel it to anyone that has already spent alot of money purchasing a Edge and now it is just a canned tuner AFTER finding out about the custom route. It seems before that custom tuning was available for the Edge there were alot of people that went the custom route either from VMP or Troyer. I somewhat feel a little buyer remorse as Im sure other have. The Edge is not worthless as a product for a stock truck but I know that a CAI can possibly cause a drivability issue as to the lean condition. The only one that I am blaming (as lack of a better word) is Edge. Just because they need to be CARB certified doesnt mean that the everyone that doesnt live in California should suffer. This is just an opinion as everyone is entitled to. I would like to see others views on this. Thanks again Bill for all the help that you have provided in the past and the future to everyone. Once again I did not mean this to come across as a personal attack.

 

But, my guess is, since Edge will no longer be able to be "custom tuned", they are cutting their throats. I really don't see how they can compete with the other brands that can be custom tuned.

Of course, the "private" version of the Edge can be tuned, so maybe they just sell them all to you Bill, and you resell them?

But, no hard feelings at all. I'm happy with my Edge at "stock". As was said before, I bought it before I even knew it could be "custom tuned". I'm not really sure what a custom tune would do for me and my relatively ordinary needs.

Just sorry it had to work out this way though. Another example of our beloved government helping us enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Thank God a change will happen soon!

- Jack

 

Glenn,

I may have come off a tad annoyed and I'd like to apologize as well. We are all going to suffer because of this decision, and I can't really say it's Edge's fault either. They certainly have their reasons.

The EPA has gone after SEVERAL major companies in an effort to set a precedence in the legal system that will hamper any company that sells a product that does not comply with emissions guidelines, ESPECIALLY those who sell devices that tamper with or defeat any emissions control device. Cat deletes, EGR deletes, DPF deletes (for those oil burners), O2 eliminators, etc... those are all targets.

The problem with custom tuning is that CARB won't certify a product as emissions compliant if it can be modified outside of the control of the manufacturer. This means that if Edge makes a programmer and has it certified, you buy it, and then I retune it, the whole certification process is useless.

It used to be that the responsibility of the consumer to ensure that a particular part or device woud not adversely affect the emissions output of a vehicle. Lately, that responsibility has begun to shift onto the shoulders of the manufacturer and they are worried.

I am still trying to see if there is a way to negotiate something that will help people who need custom tuning in order to make specific modifications work properly. So you guys with the CAIs and exhausts, don't give up hope on the Evo. It may still be resurrected.

And for those who don't think this sounds familiar, think back to several cases where firearms manufacturers sued, claiming they should be held responsible for crimes committed using their products. This isn't all that different in the sense that the people who use them responsibly are the ones who suffer.

Where does it end?