Is it possible to tune a truck on E85?

Also is is possible to convert a non Flex Fuel engine to Flex Fuel engine?

 

i would also like to know

 

if your running E85 and want a tune I think your only option is to call troyer. The canned tunes sure aren't made for E85. As far as converting TO E85... why? No benifits to this point. Plus it causes more smog and is expected to kill 200 more people a year if it becomes wide spread. But to convert, you would need the special components of the fuel system to avoid corrosion, and a special tune.

 

I met a guy last weekend at road atl who is out of South Dakota,
He owns a tuner shop up there (I think its called dyno lab or something like that ) who is working on a system to convert non e85 vehicles to E85 capable.I'll try to find his card and get the name of his shop

 

1. Yes. Via custom tuning. Call Troyer Performance. I'm not certain a 'canned' tuner can do this properly, unless the specific strategy code is supported.

2. Conditionally, yes. Arguably too expensive to consider. Many fuel system parts need replacement - but you'll find a couple folks here who have run E85 in a non-E85 truck with few problems (use the Search feature) - one has invested in custom tuning software (SCT Pro Racer) & the attendant steep learning curve to facilitate this. This is a debatable subject, for sure.

 

"some Ford flex-fuel vehicles (FFVs) produce about a 5% horsepower gain when using E85 compared to their power output on regular gasoline."

Is this true???

 

Think its the other way around. There is a HP loss with E85

 

There can be a hp gain with E85... but at the expense of WORSE milage. E85 has less power (BTU) than straight gasoline... but the ethonol actually raises the octane and you can dump more fuel in to get more power. Remember top fuel dragsters and funny cars use straight alcohol.

 

This is sort of what I was thinking. Reports from guys running E85 were that mileage on a 5.4 was at or around 9mpg, I would barely get 200 miles out of a tank.

I guess if you can get E86 you can do it, but your overall range is goign to take a hit.

 

you get terrible MPG with e85, and a pretty good power loss. its not worth the savings because you will end up spending more.

 

Hi xwerx,

Yes, we *can* tune a non-flex fuel vehicle to run on E-85 - however, I do NOT recommend it.

First, it is NOT true that you will always gain significant additional power automatically just because the octane level of E-85 tends to be higher. Sometimes you can, and sometimes you cannot. And even in the best case scenario with todays' E-85, it's not going to be a really significant gain. I have seen one person claim they got an *additional* 25-30 HP gain, but I have *never* seen that kind of true additional power gain, not once, on E-85 in these F-150's, and as far as I am concerned, that is not do-able. The most we have seen is maybe 10HP, and it's not consistent - it can be + or - about 3% or so from the power made on "normal" pump gasoline in our experience so far.

Second, your fuel mileage will *always* DROP running E-85 compared to running on "normal" pump gasoline due to the much lower BTU (energy) content - and significantly, usually 30% on average. And the fuel is NOT cheap enough to offset that drop in fuel mileage, not by a LONG shot.

Third - in wintertime, it's not E-85 any more, it's more like E-70 or so - you need more gasoline in the fuel for cold start volatility, and then your tuning is off - hence to run E-85 year-round, it should really be done in a vehicle that has been completely *converted* to E-85 use including the additional sensors in the fuel system, or far better, use it only in vehicles that come from the factory truly designed to run on *either* E-85 or gasoline - and any percentage of ethanol/alcohol in between.

Overall, I do not recommend tuning a non-flex fuel vehicle for use on E-85 - most of them do not have fuel systems that can withstand the highly caustic effects of alcohol-based fuels like ethanol (contrary to what a few have claimed here in the past), and there just isn't any real return on that investment - not in consistent significant *additional* power, and certainly not in the big drop in fuel economy.

All that being said, I have for years said that I'd like to see "gasoline" engines come from the factory equipped to run on as close to pure methanol/alcohol as possible, but only if we can get extremely consistent formulations of the fuel so that we *can* get consistent additional power gains - for example, in race cars running methanol, they typically gain about 20% more power than if they were running on gasoline, even though they have to burn almost twice as much fuel to do so (ala Indy cars, for example).

But until we can get to the point that the fuel formulations & vehicles consistent enough to really get significant additional power that is in a best case scenario possible as is done in some pure race cars, I am not a fan of the current E-85 stuff due to it's price structure. If it was significantly cheaper, and more than enough to offset the drop in fuel mileage, then I'd be all for owning a flex-fuel vehicle and running it on E-85 - but we're just not there yet, and may never be in terms of the differential in pricing of E-85 versus gasoline.

So the answer is yes, that kind of tuning can be done, but no, I do not recommend it - if you want to run on E-85, do it in a vehicle that is designed from the factory to be a true flex-fuel vehicle so that it has the additional sensors that can accurately detect the exact percentage of ethanol/alcohol in the fuel and automatically compensate for this on the fly in their PCM's - and in the F-150, that kind of capability started with the 2006 model year as an option. Yes, there were some earlier F-150's that Ford sold as "flex fuel", but for me that really starts with the 2006's in the F-150 in terms of having the additional logic in the PCM, the fuel injectors, lines, fuel pumps, tanks, and the additional sensors in the fuel system that can instantly detect the exact percentage of ethanol/alcohol in the incoming fuel and compensate everything as needed on the fly and that can withstand that level of alcohol content due to it's highly caustic nature.

There are others that feel differently, but being an experienced tuner, that is how I feel about this with regard to these F-150's - I hope this info helps just a bit.

 

Wow, I see not much has changed. I would have thought by now you would have at least taken the time to actually work on this to get at the facts instead of sticking with the same tired unproven story line. Others on the site have drawn the same conclusions. I wonder.... Has anybody actually done the tuning to take advantage of Alochol's unique properties other than me or are most simply commenting based upon what they have read. Hmmm.

 

My man! If available, i would like to discuss your custom tuning adventure and what you needed to change, etc...

email me i.ride.suzuki. [at] gmail.com

 

There is additional research work being done with ethanol where it is direct-injected into the cylinder to reduce detonation. This work is probably still years away from seeing a working model on the local lot, though.

This allows retarded timing (heheh, that just sounds funny) and higher compressions to be used, getting more benefit from the ethanol than by just blending it with gasoline.

I think the talk is that if this engine were super-charged, then could use a smaller-displacement engine with its inherent fuel efficiencies in place of the current engines while maintaining the same performance levels.

Of course, such a setup would mean filling two tanks with two different fuels when you fuel-up.

If a current vehicle were available to be run on E85 only, some of these benefits could already be realized, but I think manufacturers are reluctant at this point to release anything due to the relatively low availability of E85 nationwide, and the fact that E85 would be the only fuel the motor could reliably run on.

 

I have a superchip cortex I have a FFV engine and I am trying to figure out a tune that I can use with E70 any ideas?