I've read many of your Superchips responses toposts on why the product is better but the info is all "subjective". A lot of trust me, its better. I am curious of the "custom tune" product adds to real world rear wheel hp on the 5.4 on an otherwise stock truck. I would then like to see what a canned off the shelf does and also see the dyno curves. This way we know if it is just peak hp or is is gained at all rpm levels. Is there anything out there showing this?

This would help people like me to actually see a difference and if shown may help more of those units. I have to believe someone has this info somewhere.

Again, I understand that the more mods there are, the more reason/potential for a custom tune, blah, blah..... I am talking base line stock comparison. Thanks for the help.

 

You can find alot of this infomation by searching these forums... it's out there...

-Brian

 

I did and did not see any graphs of this tuner compared to stock compared to "of the shelf". Saw a lot of other "stuff" but nothing with hard data - just opinions.

 

zx12-iowa: There are plenty of people who've posted dyno graphs with their custom tunes, I'm among them. So it sounds like you should just need a dyno graph of some canned tunes right? I'm sure those are out there... You can put them side by side yourself and see what difference there is, if any.

- NCSU

 

Saw yours - thanks. Yours had some mods on it though, right? Its hard to compare diff dynos and diff mods, etc... I figure Troyer or others have done this and have a stock graph, custom graph and canned tune graph for an otherwise stock truck.

 

I have been involved with at least three comparisons between the canned Superchips tuners and a custom tuned XCal2 on the same truck, same dyno, same day, etc.. The information has been posted here somewhere I know, but right not I do not have the time to dig through it all , or do I remember exactly what thread it was in.
I do however remember that the difference was very sugnificent not only in total horsepower and torque, but also where it occured in the rpm range.
Horsepower was somewhere between 35-50% greater on the custom tuned XCal2..Spend some time searching and I know you will find it. The test was done in late 2004 or 2005 in Salem Virginia. One was on a 5.4 2V, and the other two were done on a 5.4 3V.

Don't wait on Mike T. to post a dyno graph here although he is the one that conducted the tests I am refering to, because he will NOT post graphs of any type, for any reason..Its his business practice which I totally agree with..

 

Thanks for the info. I'll dig deeper a little later Curious why is this?

 

I believe what Marc is saying is that Mike is never going to post what variables he modifies and by how much etc... Just like coca-cola isn't going to tell you their secret formula.. I hope that makes sense.

-Brian

 

Your absolutely right. Mikes tuning is just that, HIS and his alone. He has spent literally years doing R&D and sharpening his tuning skills on these trucks. There are several others that call him and attempt to get his experience in assisting them to achieve the excellence in tuning that he has gained with his hard work and years of experience.
Just rest assured that the tunes he creates are superior to others out there and are all very very safe for your vehicle..

** His tuning abilities are not limited to the F-Series trucks. He has just as
many race ready tunes to his credit that you more than likely will never
hear him mention....Lightings, Cobras, Vettes, you name it....

 

You just have to remember that there isn't that much horsepower left to gain. I mean that Mr Troyer, and Edge can only do so much. To expect a HUGE difference from anything other than a supercharger or nitrous is expecting too much. Say it adds 30 horsepower. That's a lot, but it isn't that much and some people can't even tell it.

So, don't expect there to be a huge difference between the edge and the xcal, or even between stock. Because there isn't that much extra hp to be had. Sure it might drop a little more time off your 1/4 runs, but as far as feeling it.... I think there comes a time when people just need to be honest and realistic. If you wanna race it, then every 10th counts. If you're just driving it, then who cares about that 10th.

When I got my edge, I was surprised. Not because it made a huge difference, but because it made a difference big enough to feel. I am, however, VERY sensitive to changes (I've driven the crap out of this truck) and what I felt probably had more to do with the engine revving to 5,000+ rpm and slamming into the next gear, than anything. I've raced trucks just like mine(without an edge) and mine is faster. I have raced my uncle's psd since I got it, and I won this time. But it isn't that much faster. Noticable but not huge.

Now, am I saying that the xcal isn't better? No. I'm just saying that there isn't that much power to be gained anyway. Both the tuners give the driver a more aggressive feel, and that's the biggest part about tuning. Ford's programming results in smooth shifts, smooth transitions between power levels, and a tuner does right the opposite. That's what you hear people talk about. You take the thing out, and it feels like a piece of crap with no power! It wasn't the peak power that had you hooked, it's the overall change in performance!

Mr. Troyer takes tuning to a different level though. In addition to hitting the high points, (spark, wot fuel injection, trans, etc.) he is able to look at your individual pcm program and make more changes. Changes that wouldn't necessairly benefit my computer program, but would have some effect on yours. He is able to modify more parameters and give a "more specific" tune. How big of a difference will it make? Well, there's the debate. We don't know. Only he does, and he's probably not gonna tell you. All he will tell you is that you're getting the very best that you can get for your truck. I suppose it could be a huge difference, but even if it isn't, you STILL have a tune that was specifically made by Troyer's gang with your desires in mind. And it's largely the "piece of mind" factor that leads people to Troyer. And if you take advantage of his dyno, he can further refine your tune to suit your truck's fickle subtle differences, or engine modifications.

What you need to do,.... What ANYONE THAT IS THINKING ABOUT A TUNER needs to do is give Mike Troyer a call and let him explain it to ya. He and his team run a small business that deals directly with the customer. I have spoken with him before, and he seemed very honest, and upfront to me. People here are gonna be bias, and nobody wants to believe that they got ripped off. Just call the man. And don't call him unless you're ready to spend a few minutes on the phone, cause he'll explain everything, and tell you what the differences are. I know he's a salesman, but he does know his stuff, and there's a lot of info to be gained from him. He is also a supporting vendor of this site, and regardless of your decision on a tuner, you can buy either the edge or xcal from him.

If you want a better understanding of what he does, he will probably tell you a lot more over the phone than he would over the web. Good luck, and regardless of which you choose, you will have a way to check for codes, and you'll at least be able to outrun a stock version of your truck.

Troyer put his phone number on here for a reason. He helps pay for this site because he wants to sell you a tuner. Call him and let him sell you one..... either one.

Every time I've spoken to him, he "sold" me about 50 different things! And if I had enough money, I'd buy them from him!

 

I have nothing but respect for mike and others who are members of or support this board. I am merely hoping to learn here. I am the type of person that appreciates peoples subjective feedback but needs to know facts. The fact I am missing is what the power gains are from Xcal2, a stocked or canned chip/tuner over the stock power. Not just peak b/c I rarely redline this thing, I would like to see the diff from idle though the whole rpm range on a dyno graph.

Appreciate the info about Mike and his product and he does seem knowledgeable and very fair. Also I don't in any way want to know his "secrets" - I wouldn't understand the info anyways....

Like you said, the power gains may be negligible going to a custom tuner. What does that mean in numbers? Well I don't know... If the diff is only a few ponies at top rpm, then I may not have interest but if I am losing 10-20 hp throughout the rpm range, that is significant. Or if the Xcal2 only offers me 5 hp more than a canned tuner on my otherwise stock truck, I may not spring for the exta cost. But if its more, I may.

Many on here have other performance mods or push their truck to high rpms often. I am not one of them. For these folks a cstomr tuner sounds like a "no brainer". But for an average joe, a guy like me, what are my chances... lay it on me....

 

Yeah, but you're kinda missing the point. Even if you had 2 side by side dyno graphs, they'd be nearly equal anyway. You keep talking about top end ponies, but that's not where the real "driveability" comes into play. You can't really measure the difference in tuners in terms of peak horsepower. It makes a difference through the whole power band. Some strategies will probably benefit better in some reigons than others, and vice versa. So there's no clearly defined line. Bottom line is that with the edge you get a tune that calibrates certian peramaters of your truck to enhance performance. When you get a Troyer xcal you get the same thing, but it is more refined. Troyer takes each strategy 1 by 1 and writes programs individually (to suit your wants) and to give you an optimum program. The edge is a bit more generic, with a few custom options. Now we can sit here and argue all day how much of a difference it makes, and honestly I don't know. The only way you're gonna find out is to buy them both and compare them, because anything else is subjective. You can't compare my truck to yours cause they are different. And when you're talking 5 hp, that's nothing! Your hp varies more than from day to day based on temp changes! The reason you see so many opinions, is that there aren't 100 hp differences between the two!

This is really getting old. If you want to know more JUST CALL MIKE TROYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Exactly.

I agree which is why it would be great to see the dyno graphs side by side on stock trucks.

Not trying to argue at all. I just am looking for the info. If you don't know, that's fine. I am sure someone has this info. I am sure Mike has this info. From reading gobs of Mike's posts, it is apparent he is not comfortable providing this info in the format I would like to see it. I am just looking for this info.

Not trying to beat this horse, just trying to get info that would help ME in MY decision making process. Maybe it may help someone else too. Who knows....

 

Do you plan on doing further modifications? An XCAL tune from Mike can be adjusted for just about any mod you might do. The Edge tune cannot. It is a generic tune for a range of vehicles not a specific tune for your vehicle and mods. If you do not plan any major mods the Edge would probably work for you.

 

Just call the man. He's nice, but if you think he's trying to screw you over, don't believe what he says! Of course he's gonna try to sell you the xcal, but he'll probably tell you why. And isn't that what you're looking for?