programer & ethenol in gas
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Northern Illinois
Originally Posted by raider
04-07 F150 uses XL3Z.9F472.AA for front O2's and 4L3Z.9G444.AA for the rear O2's....doesnt matter if FFV or not
Marc Carpenter said:
Then please explain to me why an '04 and the '06 have different O2 sensors, with the '04 requiring a 13117, and the '06 FFV a 15664. Not only that , but the fuel pump on the '06 FFV also carries a different part number.
Marc Carpenter said:
Then please explain to me why an '04 and the '06 have different O2 sensors, with the '04 requiring a 13117, and the '06 FFV a 15664. Not only that , but the fuel pump on the '06 FFV also carries a different part number.
Thanks Raider. It is interesting to see Mike take shots at me challenging my credibility when all I continue to ask for are the facts proving my approach incorrect. I have a 1998 F150 & a 2006 F150. Neither are FFV. I will be converting them as well when I am sure my approach is sound. This may be 3 months, 6 months, or maybe never if my approach and this project shows I have missed something. My 2004 has now had a higher % of Ethanol running through its system for over 9000 miles with E85 for the past 6000 miles. I am paying $2.42 per gallon compared to $3.32 for 93 Octane and very soon I will be paying $1.25. It is running very well. The recent oil change showed a cleaner oil when compared to past oil changes. This weekend, we will extract a spark plug to see what it looks like. Draw whatever conclusion you want.
It is not and never has been my intent to offend anyone. More importantly, I sure am not, even for a second, down playing or down grading the extremely positive and important impact SCT and Troyer has had on the F150 Trucks. It is their skills, experience, persistence, entrepeneur approach, etc that has paved the way for many many who seek more. It is the thousands of dyno runs done by both groups that have positioned myself and others to proceed down whatever course we wish to take with these trucks. Regardless of Mike's attack on me, I will continue to promote him as one the best, if not the best, F150 tuner in America. It would have been nicer to work with him on creating this E85 tune as opposed to working alone; but, everybody has to decide where they want to spend their time. E85 is not very prevalent in the East at this time so the payback likely isn't there. In the midwest; however, an entirely different situation is unfolding. The need for an E85 tune for non FFV vehicles grows with each day as the number of stations selling E85 and the number of Ethanol plants grow. The federal and state governments are awarding huge tax incentives for the production of Ethanol and the conversion of vehicles to run Ethanol.
In the end. It really is too bad my questions and challenges have not been answered directly. It really is too bad that instead of presenting facts to back up their opinions they have simply remained silent or present their opinions. Yes, I have made mistakes and yes I continue to learn from these mistakes. I have been around for 46 years and have always challanged the status quo in instances and situations where a benefit can be derived. It is my way and always has been. Some will find my approach offensive. It should not be interpretted this way; but, it is always more work to do the research, gather facts, and then interpret the application of those facts than it is to simply state an opinion.
I do; however, sincerely appreciate the work done by Mike Troyer and SCT. Many have benefited from their work and many more will benefit.
Last edited by tschaid; Jul 20, 2006 at 09:43 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,803
Likes: 1
From: North Canton, Ohio
Originally Posted by tschaid
Hmm. Different part numbers Marc. What is the source of your data ? Doesn't look like it came from a Ford Service Parts Manual ?
Thanks Raider. It is interesting to see Mike take shots at me challenging my credibility when all I continue to ask for are the facts proving my approach incorrect. I have a 1998 F150 & a 2006 F150. Neither are FFV. I will be converting them as well when I am sure my approach is sound. This may be 3 months, 6 months, or maybe never if my approach and this project shows I have missed something. My 2004 has now had a higher % of Ethanol running through its system for over 9000 miles with E85 for the past 6000 miles. I am paying $2.42 per gallon compared to $3.32 for 93 Octane and very soon I will be paying $1.25. It is running very well. The recent oil change showed a cleaner oil when compared to past oil changes. This weekend, we will extract a spark plug to see what it looks like. Draw whatever conclusion you want.
It is not and never has been my intent to offend anyone. More importantly, I sure am not, even for a second, down playing or down grading the extremely positive and important impact SCT and Troyer has had on the F150 Trucks. It is their skills, experience, persistence, entrepeneur approach, etc that has paved the way for many many who seek more. It is the thousands of dyno runs done by both groups that have positioned myself and others to proceed down whatever course we wish to take with these trucks. Regardless of Mike's attack on me, I will continue to promote him as one the best, if not the best, F150 tuner in America. It would have been nicer to work with him on creating this E85 tune as opposed to working alone; but, everybody has to decide where they want to spend their time. E85 is not very prevalent in the East at this time so the payback likely isn't there. In the midwest; however, an entirely different situation is unfolding. The need for an E85 tune for non FFV vehicles grows with each day as the number of stations selling E85 and the number of Ethanol plants grow. The federal and state governments are awarding huge tax incentives for the production of Ethanol and the conversion of vehicles to run Ethanol.
In the end. It really is too bad my questions and challenges have not been answered directly. It really is too bad that instead of presenting facts to back up their opinions they have simply remained silent or present their opinions. Yes, I have made mistakes and yes I continue to learn from these mistakes. I have been around for 46 years and have always challanged the status quo in instances and situations where a benefit can be derived. It is my way and always has been. Some will find my approach offensive. It should not be interpretted this way; but, it is always more work to do the research, gather facts, and then interpret the application of those facts than it is to simply state an opinion.
I do; however, sincerely appreciate the work done by Mike Troyer and SCT. Many have benefited from their work and many more will benefit.
Thanks Raider. It is interesting to see Mike take shots at me challenging my credibility when all I continue to ask for are the facts proving my approach incorrect. I have a 1998 F150 & a 2006 F150. Neither are FFV. I will be converting them as well when I am sure my approach is sound. This may be 3 months, 6 months, or maybe never if my approach and this project shows I have missed something. My 2004 has now had a higher % of Ethanol running through its system for over 9000 miles with E85 for the past 6000 miles. I am paying $2.42 per gallon compared to $3.32 for 93 Octane and very soon I will be paying $1.25. It is running very well. The recent oil change showed a cleaner oil when compared to past oil changes. This weekend, we will extract a spark plug to see what it looks like. Draw whatever conclusion you want.
It is not and never has been my intent to offend anyone. More importantly, I sure am not, even for a second, down playing or down grading the extremely positive and important impact SCT and Troyer has had on the F150 Trucks. It is their skills, experience, persistence, entrepeneur approach, etc that has paved the way for many many who seek more. It is the thousands of dyno runs done by both groups that have positioned myself and others to proceed down whatever course we wish to take with these trucks. Regardless of Mike's attack on me, I will continue to promote him as one the best, if not the best, F150 tuner in America. It would have been nicer to work with him on creating this E85 tune as opposed to working alone; but, everybody has to decide where they want to spend their time. E85 is not very prevalent in the East at this time so the payback likely isn't there. In the midwest; however, an entirely different situation is unfolding. The need for an E85 tune for non FFV vehicles grows with each day as the number of stations selling E85 and the number of Ethanol plants grow. The federal and state governments are awarding huge tax incentives for the production of Ethanol and the conversion of vehicles to run Ethanol.
In the end. It really is too bad my questions and challenges have not been answered directly. It really is too bad that instead of presenting facts to back up their opinions they have simply remained silent or present their opinions. Yes, I have made mistakes and yes I continue to learn from these mistakes. I have been around for 46 years and have always challanged the status quo in instances and situations where a benefit can be derived. It is my way and always has been. Some will find my approach offensive. It should not be interpretted this way; but, it is always more work to do the research, gather facts, and then interpret the application of those facts than it is to simply state an opinion.
I do; however, sincerely appreciate the work done by Mike Troyer and SCT. Many have benefited from their work and many more will benefit.
No it didn't come from a service manual..Go back and read to post that I wrote after talking to one of the Powertrain Engineers that I used to work with at Ford Motor Company..
First hand information from one who is involved in the process...
PLEASE, don't tell me you already an expert in designing Ford vehicles, like you seem to assume you are with tuning them with just a few weeks or months experience....But, its your vehicle so do what you may...
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Northern Illinois
Originally Posted by Marc Carpenter
No it didn't come from a service manual..Go back and read to post that I wrote after talking to one of the Powertrain Engineers that I used to work with at Ford Motor Company..
First hand information from one who is involved in the process...
PLEASE, don't tell me you already an expert in designing Ford vehicles, like you seem to assume you are with tuning them with just a few weeks or months experience....But, its your vehicle so do what you may...
First hand information from one who is involved in the process...
PLEASE, don't tell me you already an expert in designing Ford vehicles, like you seem to assume you are with tuning them with just a few weeks or months experience....But, its your vehicle so do what you may...
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,803
Likes: 1
From: North Canton, Ohio
Originally Posted by tschaid
There you go again. Why are you taking shots at me? All I am asking for is facts. Not personal opinions. The Ford Service Manuals are what every dealership in America uses. The opinion of a retired Ford Engineer does not factor in to what Service Centers do in replacing parts on these trucks. Wow. It sure is interesting how some respond to specific questions. I assume nothing that is why I am asking for specifics.
And I was NOT taking a shot at you, I don't know you, your capabilities, knowledge or anything else relating to you.All I did was make a statement based on your pervious comments.I don't see how your experience over such a short period of time makes you such an expert on the subject.
Get your information from any publications you wish, but for me, I will go directly to the source. If you can't accept what one of the Engineers involved in the issue has to say then do as you wish. Once again, it is your vehicle so have at it....I am done with this issue..Good luck
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Northern Illinois
Originally Posted by Marc Carpenter
One more time...The Engineer I am refering to is NOT retired, rather he is highly active in the Research and Developement in the FFV Program.(Sorry, but I forgot the nomenclature for that Program)
And I was NOT taking a shot at you, I don't know you, your capabilities, knowledge or anything else relating to you.All I did was make a statement based on your pervious comments.I don't see how your experience over such a short period of time makes you such an expert on the subject.
Get your information from any publications you wish, but for me, I will go directly to the source. If you can't accept what one of the Engineers involved in the issue has to say then do as you wish. Once again, it is your vehicle so have at it....I am done with this issue..Good luck
And I was NOT taking a shot at you, I don't know you, your capabilities, knowledge or anything else relating to you.All I did was make a statement based on your pervious comments.I don't see how your experience over such a short period of time makes you such an expert on the subject.
Get your information from any publications you wish, but for me, I will go directly to the source. If you can't accept what one of the Engineers involved in the issue has to say then do as you wish. Once again, it is your vehicle so have at it....I am done with this issue..Good luck